Thought I'd share...

I found a great deal on a used Greenlee 710 hole punch. It punches holes easily, but the holes aren't circular. They are more oval shaped...1-11/32 inch (the correct size) in one direction and 1/32 inch too big in the other.

The stud insulator (bushing) falls out of the hole when installed alone. With the pipe in place, it doesn't fall out, but one of the four locking tabs doesn't catch the stud.

Greenlee said the holes should be circular and exact, and recommends buying a new punch (the part, not entire tool).

[i93.photobucket.com]
[i93.photobucket.com]
[i93.photobucket.com]

Did you know about the out of round holes it makes before buying it? Are the parts on the business-end of it not replaceable?, seems like they ought to be. Can you get stud insulators of a different brand that are made differently that might work better?







Edited 3 times.

How did you shrink the picture file size under 50 kb? Maybe that technique should be posted in the instructions for posting new messages. I'd rather see the pictures on my thread, but they are always huge...



Edited 1 times.

Digital cameras nowadays can take photos that result in huge filesizes. Most cameras default to the highest quality setting from the factory or after a battery change and people never change it. On your camera you should be able to select a photo size or resolution setting that will give you a smaller filesize, at somewhat lower photo quality. For web purposes like here that lower quality won't matter and you may get a photo filesize that is small enough you won't have to do all of the following:

I use this website to upload the photo and change its size when needed:

[postimage.io]

It is easy and fast, does what I want it to do. It gives you some choices on changing the photo size or leaving it as is. For your 2 photos I used the 320x240 size and that reduced them down to a reasonable size. After the photo uploads the screen will change to a list of links for the photo, I click on the second link down the list ("direct link", all the way to the right-hand column is an icon that you click on to grab the photo link, this copies the link to the Windows scratchpad. Then I go to my message here, put my mouse pointer in the message block and click once to make sure my cursor/mouse pointer is in the message block, then I insert/paste the photo link into my message by pressing ctrl-v on my keyboard (you could probably do that a different Windows way, like maybe a right-click). This will paste the link to the photo into the message block. After that you just put the embedded image command on each end of the photo link like this:



It is similar to html markup language. You put the command inside the square brackets at the beginning, then the same command at the end prefaced with a "/" symbol to end the command. Sometimes I have to try different photo sizes to get the final size of the image I want, that's why a lot of my messages here have so many edits (plus I make a lot of typos or have another idea I want to add to the message instead of posting a followup message).

For example, here is the command I put in this message to display your 3rd photo, which is shown below:


.


It sounds harder than it is, just takes a minute or two per photo. And actually the instructions to do some of this are posted here on the Plbg website. Just click on "EDIT POST" at the bottom of one of your messages, then scroll down toward the bottom of the screen, there will be a lot of instructions and examples on how to do this type of thing. I suspect that many/most html commands will work, you just put them inside the square brackets instead of the normal html method of using the left and right arrows like this <img>.

See Ya!




Edited 34 times.

Thank you, stuckinlodi. I appreciate your effort. Helpful information.

I'm using Photobucket and I can't find 'file size' anywhere. However, with other programs, like Windows Photo Gallery, I can check properties and see file size. Pain to go back and forth.

Nick



Edited 1 times.

The die and punch would BOTH have to be out of round for that to happen, and if so, the two pieces would SELDOM slide in and out as smmoothly as needed

I got a mystery on my hands.

I follow your logic HJ, so I did an experiment. I rotated the punch 90 degrees relative the die and squeezed the handles. The punch still closed easily. I then punched another hole and wouldn't you guess. The hole is now circular and only 0.006 inch larger than 1-11/32, so it's fine.

I called Greenlee and they were stumped like me. I sent them the attached photo which shows a significant gap between the punch and die. Greenlee said the gap should be small, but wouldn't reveal the proprietary information.

So, I wait to see what Greenlee says and maybe punch some more test holes.

[i93.photobucket.com]

Maybe someone took parts out of another punch, different model or brand, and put into your punch?





Is there a "technique" to using one of these, like not holding it straight or something that could produce oval holes until you became skilled with it?



Edited 5 times.

Please don't say that. So, I might have a Frankenstein punch.

The Greenlee guy asked me questions like that...."Are you holding it straight? Did you punch twice?....

I don't see how I could have misused the tool...seems pretty straightforward.

He said he never heard of it punching an oval hole, but he sounded young though. You can't see the out-of-roundness with your eyes, but if you take your caliper out to measure...

By the way, your technique for posting pictures is better than mine. I tried resizing the picture like you suggested through Photobucket and the picture came out pixelated so you couldn't see the gap between punch and die. I'll have to work on that more...

yep, I know Photobucket is popular but I'm not a fan, it seems slower than it should be and either doesn't have the features I want or they are hard to find quickly. That website I posted about earlier is free & easy, does all I need.

I figured since the Greenlee folks couldn't explain why you got oval holes or the larger than normal gap in the tool that maybe it had been worked on and wasn't like it was originally. But if it will do what you need then no worries. Maybe for a tool with wear the holes it punches are within the tolerance limits of the tool?



Edited 2 times.

Yeah I don't like Photobucket for the same reasons. Very slow to load it seems. Although I have a slow internet connection. I think it's from all the advertisements, especially video, that it tries to load. I never could find the file size while in Photobucket. Seems very basic to me. In addition, although it has a photo editor, I couldn't find a simple line tool so I could point at something in the photos.

Now that I think about it, it was silly for Greenlee to tell me that the diameter of their punch and die are proprietary. Anybody can take one apart and measure it. In fact, I think I'll do that and pass the dimensions along to Greenlee to see if they are within spec.

If nothing else, if I can understand how this tool works, even if I don't know why, then I can repeat the good results and avoid the bad. Basically, I need to find what the pattern is. It's brute force analysis...punch a bunch of holes and alter different things until I know if I do this, then this will happen.

Greenlee just emailed me to say the gap looks correct in the photo...

Photobucket used to be good.

Now they are littered with ads, and intentionally throttling the speed of uploading pictures to play video ads and pop ups. You have to click multiple times to dismiss ads they throw in your face. Their goal is to get you to upgrade for a fee in order to get back the normal speed.

I use an image editor to redline and process the pictures before I upload my pictures. The edit tools in PB is painfully slow, on purpose, to extend the amount of time you spend on the site, and hence allowing them to put more ads on your face.

Have you noticed this site has NO ADS?

If Photobucket doesn't watch out they are going to become like Myspace when Facebook came along or like Travelocity when Expedia and Kayak ate their lunch. There's too many other choices for people to turn to when a website starts that nonsense.

Hey! I did it. Posted my first embedded image. Thanks stuckinlodi and postimg.



I think I found the problem.

When I disassembled the punch, I noticed the punch head, the bottom piece in the photo was loose...very easy to screw in or out. The threads on the head are coarse, so there is slop between the threads until the head is snug against the shoulder of the pin...the top piece in the photo. The middle piece is just a sleeve going over everything.

Since the punch first makes contact with those two cutting points, it is naturally unstable. The punch head wants to tilt unless it's perfectly aligned. Kind of like standing on one ice skate. Since the head was loose, it was able to tilt a little. And when you tilt a circle...you get an oval. That's my theory anyway...

Another picture, with sleeve to the side.


Now, does anybody know how to remove this "paper clip" looking pin?

I've not seen a pin retainer clip like that before. It may be the kind of thing that is cut off (destroyed) then another new one installed when you are ready to put it back together. But that's just a guess. If you pull on that angled leg at one end of the clip does it move out of the way and allow the clip to be pryed over the top of the pin? I can't quite see how the clip is formed and runs around the pin.

Possibly the Greenlee rep can give some insight?

Do you need to remove the clip and pin in order to tighten things up? It sounded like you were already able to tighten up the punch head. If you cut off that retaining clip make a promise to yourself that you won't stick a paper clip back on there.


Good job on working thru the postimg way of posting photos. Smaller photos are faster to load and take up less space on the site but keep in mind that some need to be big enough so people can see the detail of what they are looking at. So it's ok to pick a larger photo size when needed, such as 640x480 or even larger.



Edited 6 times.

That's a good idea. I'll ask the Greenlee rep about the clip and share my theory.

Yes, I need to remove that clip so I can tighten the punch head on the bolt. There's really no way to grab the punch head when it's assembled since the sleeve covers almost everything. See below. I'll be careful not to scratch the punch while tightening...maybe wrap the pipe wrench teeth with a rag or use a strap wrench.



By the way, my caliper showed the die and punch are round, not oval. And, the punch head looks authentic...labelled Greenlee with the correct part number. The die has no markings, but is probably the real McCoy (yes, that's how you spell it...I had to check)

That's all good news. It's just gotten loose from all the years of work it's done. Too bad they don't have a "hole counter" on there so you'd know how many it's made. I got a feeling this is going to turn out well and that you got a good deal on a very handy tool.

And don't leave it laying around at the jobsite - it might disappear.

UPDATE:
Here is the owner's manual for your punch, also has the parts breakdown drawing in it. But it might be for an earlier or later model than yours, I didn't see that retaining clip in the parts drawing:
[greenlee-cdn.ebizcdn.com]


Found this (below) at the GreenleeStore online, so they have parts for it available. That retaining clip might be removable and reusable, but looks like a chinese puzzle to get off. If you ever played that game "Twister" with your girlfriend on the mat with colored circles then you can probably get that retaining clip off.

link to website:
[www.greenleestore.com]






Edited 9 times.

That clip came off real easy. Just grab and twist up as shown below.




Now I'm having trouble getting the punch head tight on the threaded shaft...possibly the reason why the head came loose before.

The punch is smooth so it's hard to grab without scratching the surface. After I use electrical tape or a sheet of rubber to protect the surface, the tools below just slip/slide on the punch...can't grab it. My strap wrench is really cheap, maybe a better quality one will help.

Maybe I need to clean the punch first with acetone to get the surface really clean. Someone mentioned rosin powder. I guess I need to knock over a pitcher and steal his rosin bag.

Are the threads binding or maybe worn out, is that why the punch head won't tighten up? May need some new parts.

The threads are clean. The head screws nicely onto the shaft and the head stops suddenly as the machined shoulders meet. I think I got the head on tight enough.

For the record, my theory didn't pan out. Two of the five new holes I punched are still oval. I give up. For the insulators that are loose, I'll just pry the plastic tabs up a little, so they catch the stud.

You mentioned earlier that the oval hole wasn't something you could easily see, just a slight out of roundness that you have to measure to confirm. I wouldn't worry about it and your fix to the inserts will take care of it.

Would replacing any part on the punch fix it? I think that model punch retails for about $245. So if you got it cheap enough you could spend a little on parts and still have a good deal.

Thanks for staying with me on this issue, stuckinlodi. Yeah, I'm not going to worry about it. It's unlikely the bushings will fall out of the oval holes, especially if I lift the tabs up a little.

It punches holes easily, so I think the punch and die are sharp and I measured them round, so I think they are ok. Buying a new die and punch may or may not help. Something seems to be shifting in the punch. I don't punch holes often, so I can live with it.

Is that sleeve out of round maybe? That's the part that the punch bit moves thru when punching the holes, right? From what you say it seems like the punch bit (or some other part like a bushing) may wobble or tilt a little when you apply force to it at the beginning of punching the hole. Is the purpose of the sleeve to keep the punch bit straight? Or is it the C-shaped frame of the tool itself?





Edited 4 times.