PACKY Why do you use the toilet wax rings that do not have the plastic discharg horn?

I'll answer too, I have saw some toilet outlets that were larger than the opening in the plastic horn. I've heard that under certain circumstances the water can splash off the plastic horn and cause seepage. I do not use a seal that has the plastic horn.

You mean closet auger snags?

I'm sure Packy will jump in soon- but he is still dealing with the remaining snow from last winter up there on the cape. I remember one of his reasons being that if the toilet flange sets too high (and not flat on the floor) then the upper half of the wax above the plastic horn is compromised and failure will soon follow.

i DO use plain wax rings because.. if the flange is set at the proper height i feel there is no need for any sort
of extension to the toilet horn.
on very, very rare occasions i have used a wax with the sleeve in it BUT only on a 4 inch cast iron flange with a large opening that i felt could use a little extra help.
now, according to MA politics.. if the speaker of the MA house had a brother-in-law who manufactured wax rings with plastic sleeves, they would pass a law requiring them.

Because they cause more problems than they solve, such as last week when the "splash back" from the 'funnel' caused the metal ring to rust away and then leaked through the downstairs ceiling.

Should you need the 'ring' type wax seal mount it on the TOILET and stab the assembly into place.

"Splash Back" is caused by the ring becoming off center relative to the BOWL.

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Closet ring height is important when deciding whether to shim the bowl in order to get a good wax seal. If the ring is too high and you do not shim, the amount of wax between the ring and the toilet is so little as to compromise the seal when one uses a plunger to eliminate a stoppage (you can blow it out). I rarely will use a plastic horn embedded in the wax. It is better to install a piece of 4" plastic or Cast iron (there is a name for this pipe but I cannot remember what it was called, a _________ ring) for the older systems, to grade if the closet bend that was installed too low. This will give the wax ring a base to rest on and less likely to have a bad seal. The bend should not be able to move in any direction and the ring should be secured to the floor with brass screws or bolts or into lead anchors in a slab if possible.

It is called a "Dutchman".