About two years ago I purchased a new home and the water heater was broken. The seller paid to have it replaced. It's a direct power vent water heater. Then the next year we started having problems and getting codes about the venting being blocked.

I called the same plumber and they reluctantly came out and put a water drain on to one of the vent that had frozen. That spring when we turned our water back on the pipes had frozen and broken (we had turned off the water in the fall).

I had a different plumber come and fix the pipe. Later we had a home energy audit and the guy noticed through the hole in the ceiling we made to fix the pipe that our vent (exhaust I think) in the ceiling next to the water pipe was disconnected at the 90 degree turn to the outside. This means that not only were exhaust fumes coming into my house but cold 0 degree weather was coming into my house.

The pipes will just barley touch right now where they came apart and near the water heater itself I can see it's about 2 inches away from the hook that is supposed to hold the pipe (meaning it must have been pulled about 2 inches back when he installed it.

Is this the plumbers fault and should he make it right?

Let me know if picture will help.

i think you need to talk to the gas inspector. he approved the original installation and he was either wrong and approved an installation that moved 2 inches or the house settled 2 inches (which i highly doubt).pipes are supposed to be secured in such a way so that they will not seperate.

A picture would definitely help, because it is hard to follow what you are describing.

I believe he is saying the concealed portion of the vent pipe for the power vent separated by 2 inches.

Here is inside the ceiling where it was disconnected and venting into the house/letting in the cold air.
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Here is where it's two inches from being lined up
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hard to tell anything conclusive from those photos. it all looks as if primer was used so if it was glued as well then the likelyhood of it coming apart is very, very remote.
so, to be 100% sure, get it all replaced with new pipe and fittings and get it re-inspected so you are covered in case of anything terrible happening.
replacing should not cost alot. pipe and fittings are cheap and the holes are already drilled.
send the photos and the reciept for the paid bill to the original plumber. demand reinbursement since his work fell apart and could have caused you and your family to die of carbon monoxide poisoning if it was not discovered.
you are 100% right and he is 100% wrong.
i rest my case...
by the way.. save all the old pipe as evidence..



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The expensive part will be fixing the ceiling and replacing carpet.

The fact that someone put up a drywall ceiling on the joists tells me that there wasn't a gap like that before they put the ceiling up, or they were complete imbeciles. The pipe may not have been attached securely enough, but I suspect that someone slammed a sheet of drywall into a vertical section of pipe and it broke the connection loose. Both parties are at fault at this point.

The house was built 20 years ago so is there much you can do about the original install of the vent pipe? Does the plumber have no liability to make sure when he installed the unit it's venting correctly?

When you say both parties who are you speaking of exactly?

Whomever installed the drywall ceiling and the original installer of the venting. If the original installation had been properly it shouldn't have come apart. If the drywall installer saw a problem and covered it, or if they damaged it during the ceiling installation they are partially at fault as well. The guy that came and installed the replacement heater had no way of knowing that the vent was disconnected in a sealed cavity unless he were to tear out all the ceiling and walls to verify the integrity of the system. If you think that anybody is going to let some random plumber tear up their home just to take a look at the venting then you are deluded. The only realistic scenario where that would happen is if there was an inspection, and the inspector required the ceiling to come down so that the vent could be inspected.

Well the pipe is just hanging there loose wouldn't he notice that when he is connecting to it? Isn't there a much better chance he pulled it apart when he was messing with the venting tubes (install or adding the draining) than someone doing drywall broken it or closed the ceiling on it like that.

it only could be pulled apart if it was poorly done in the beginning. a properly primed and glued joint that was fully inserted is very, very strong.

The plumber said it was primed but only about an inch in instead of the inch and a half it should have been. He won't cover any damages only fix the pipe for me. So I'm on the hook for all damages.

Great!

looking closer at the photo, i can see the pipe was not quite 1/2 way into the fitting.
since that is the case, the plumber can not be responsible for 'hidden' damage.

A dwv fitting inserted half way is only about 3/8 of an inch even if it is cut square, and since the hub is tapered, that portion of the fitting barely touches the pipe at all. Whomever said it was inserted an inch into the fitting was lying to you. If you doubt me, go measure a fitting.

KC, can you tell if that is 2" or 3" pipe?
i suspect it is 2" since it is a flue for a water heater.
if that is the case, the pipe goes into the fitting about 7/8". it appears to have been inserted less than 1/2 way. that would give you (as you stated) 3/8 inch .
it would not take much shake and wiggle to seperate it.
who is at fault? i suppose the second plumber should have gone outside to check that the exhaust was working but who does that? i don't...
so, it's kind of a situation where everyone is at fault and no one is at fault.
chalk it up to experience and be thankful no one inhaled carbon monoxide.

Right but I'm on the hook for the thousands of dollars for the damage that was caused? The plumber did say he checked outside that it was exhausting correctly so he thinks it came apart after he was here to service it. How is it possible it doesn't come apart when he is working on it and then it comes apart later when no one is touching it.

I'm pretty sure it's a 3" pipe it's pretty big.

The picture is such low resolution and fuzzy that I can't read the pipe markings, but the turn radius on that fitting looks like a 2" dwv fitting. I suspect it was laying inside the ceiling before the last plumber replaced the heater, and was the reason for the venting problem in the first place. Exhaust gasses were building up in the cavity, acting like a partially blocked vent. If the vent had been connected properly, the first heater would probably still be in place and running fine at this moment. Keep in mind, we can judge these things after the fact. The guy replacing the heater couldn't see inside the finished ceiling.

if it is 3" pipe then it inserts 1 1/2" into the fitting.

If it is 3" and it was inserted 2/3 of the way into the fitting and allowed to dry, it wouldn't have come apart. My point is, the original installer of the system didn't do things right, and whoever finished the ceiling either covered up the shoddy work, or broke it apart while covering the lines.