Well its Not the 4" copper pipe behind the wall,and funny enough,looks like a 1" copper pipe stemming from under the 4" pipe..this is nuts...why the heck would they do that? hope its not under the slab..can send pictures..wondering if i can crimp the 1" and force the water out the 4" like i would think it would,,old house 1961 builder was Not very good..sugestions

why? - because they could

the 4" would be a drain, probably sanitary waste

the 1" is water supply


either hire a leak detection company

or

start chopping until you find break

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

quote; wondering if i can crimp the 1" and force the water out the 4" like i would think it would

You are probably thinking WRONG and doing that would just give ANOTHER problem to solve.

water supply is seperate from the 4",the 1" i have No idea,the water supply is pvc and comes from the bathroom in to the kitchen..it only leaks when you pour water down the sink.Not when it runs..
who ever did this house built it its backwards as hell in areas...like i said it only leaks after pouring water down the drain in the kitchen sink..ty though any other sugestions?

that's why i haven't done that,and why im in here asking..the house is too old to locate blue prints etc to be helpful...the water in to the kitchen is from the bathroom and is pvc,all of this including the 1" pipe is all copper...there use to be a second water line in the back room but was shut off and eliminated..trust me i worked construction for 30 years..its better to be patient than screw it up more.,.suggestions? i can take pictures for any one to see!

i think i understand what you are describing ??
when you run water in the kitchen sink it backs out of the 1" copper pipe in the floor.
if so, hook an air compressor to the 1" copper drain and blow it out. you will never snake it.
flush water thru it and blow it out again.

Please post pictures.

Snake the kitchen sink instead. If the sink is backing it up, it is past where the lines meet.

if, in fact, you have 1" drain piping under the slab: start chopping

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

ok heres a picture and why would waste/sewer drain be connected to the kitchen sink??

here you look will take a few more so you can see ok? ADD





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1" water supply? some thing the original builder did etc doesn't make sense,i know your right..but it only leaks when the drain is operable..if you just run the water with the sink clogged it doesn't leak at all am i missing some thing? look at the picture and tell me i can take many more and show you the whole 9 yards..it sucks..

ahaaaaaaaa that makes sense...will a can of compressed air work or not? WE >I got robbed thanks giving day and they got alot of my tools compressor included,they found the @#$%& and Heroin addict who could care less,what a A-- ok that makes sense due to the sink was clogged but how would it leak? from here a seem between the pipe the rest of it is sealed..hmmm

i used a plunger and it cleared
THEn this leak happened..wonder what the --- i did? break the 1" or is it still clogged? look at the picture i sent if you need more let me know

The plunger didn't clear anything, but shouldn't have caused a leak either. plunging just bounces the water level up and down in the vent.

steve i did i can take more but this shows the 4" drain and the i believe a 1" coming off the 4" to hopeful just ground level.. why the hell would they do that when the 4" is sufficient? frustrated..and why would it b e water supply? its all sewer,waste water,either it be kitchen bathroom toilet or shower,its all waste....and it only leaks when i use the drain..period..running the water/tap produces nothing..help

how would it back out when it sealed and joined to the 4" drain pipe?

theres a picture for ya im gonna take more..why the hell would they put a 1"in a 4" and i checked the out side main out from the house and when i run the kitchen sink it was flowing..wt???? gesus

heres more pictures my friends thanks for the help..am gonna wait to see the best way to attack this...more pictures....













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will take some better pictures tomorrow ok guys and thanks to ALL for the help and input im doing Nothing till i know EXACTLY WHAT to do..suggestions please...i have done pipe but under ground utility and storm/reclaim Not residential well limited residential and new construction which is easier than this lol

Is that 1" supporting the 4" or does it actually tee into it? Maybe the 1" was only a support and has punctured the 4". Is the water leaking out from the 1"-4" junction?

Steve I was wondering the same thing but I can't tell the orientation of the photos because of the quality and limited frame of reference. I am assuming that if we are looking down on the main line, that the 1" is actually a 1.25" Lavatory drain. I personally have never seen anything bigger than 3" copper used in a residential setting. It was always connected to 3" or 4" cast after it had made all the connections except for a few rare instances, and it was never underground.

Bingo the builder from what my neighbors told me was not only a @#$%& but a drunk,hmmmmmmmmmmmm lol my attorney wants to sew for negligence..shes so adorable(show her the money and she turns nice go figure,grins like a Cheshire cat gesus) when she is pissed..serious ok felt the 1" no water leaks from the top..so.the second thought lavatory drains might be the correct answer this guy wasnt the smartest cookie in the jar..and your right 3" would have been more reasonable i did pipe work years ago sure looks like 4
" copper pipe..so is it a over flow or is it a leak and should i start cutting out to the bottom of the floor and try to find a leak,not doing a thing less i have too..will take some better pics right now ok! thanks to all.your kick a--- way ta go..bunch of really nice guys for helping..

not that i can see.why i think its actually connected..why i have No idea why it would be..pathetic..taking better pics and will get a few under the 1" to see i thought same thing,that it was a support..but the water is coming from ground level with the floor..and it seems to be coming right from the area of the 1" under the counter..and also perhaps from one area i can see visible water damage,and also saw water damage to the drywall(wet spot that had dried so it would appear..how fun..wanna help?

Here ys go more pictures more vivid on the 1" which by the way seems to move..good or bad i can wiggle it a tad..probably Not good in any sense less its anchoring the 4"



















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will retest the 1" to see if it is a support when i did test the first time No apparent water leak from the top of the 1" this is nuts..so uploaded some fairly vivid pictures..thanks again to all that are helping..doing nada till i know for sure..doin a slab will suck lol but only if i have too... it does wiggle the 1" so?? if it is a drain is the leak below the block? Yikes
will retest it today and drain water to see if it does come from the top ..will post results

the only part i didn't demo was the elbow/45 coming off the 4" pipe coming in to the wall which you can see in my very first picture.wondering if that's it and cant see it leaking due to its still semi in-cased? ok waiting still and oh talk to the building department in clearwater fl the guy knows me said same thing i think Steve said,wondering if the 1" is some kind of "dummy" support..and ate a hole in the 4" still cant see water visibly from 1" rechecking will update



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ok buddy your the winner maybe.. the kitchen sink was backing up then wasnt now this am rechecked for leaks Bingo the sink is draining VERY slowly...so it is a clog? why would it leak on my kitchen floor im so damn baffled have a buddy coming out i think tonight hes a plumber...but Daum..this is so frustrating so where would it come out if the drain was backed up with a clog???

im good at carpentry,mortar,block,master painter/decorator >suck at pipe work..can ya tell?

Copper drains are notoriously bad for anything other than indirect waste. In a traditional plumbing system, sewer gasses (methane, water vapor, atmosphere, etc.) eat the tops of the drain lines out. If you have a backup, it can commonly push water and other gunk through these pinholes… be warned, when you cable these lines, they can bust open entirely or at least make more pinholes.

By the time it is all said and done, you may end up having to excavate the line and replace it. If the line does have a bunch of pinholes and you don't replace it, you are introducing a source of water and bacteria for mold and other 'crud' to grow unchecked in the area under your home. In which you will live. And breathe in all the spores and bacteria that breed under your feet and in the walls.

Crap that sucks as i have asbestos in the walls of the bathroom as i saw it it is old and decade the worst kind,i would have to open up the entire wall LESS i can dis attach the old and re-rout wondering if i can reach enough of the pipe from under the house and pull it apart from kitchen wall and replace with PVC,,suggestions?

and your right im sure slow drainage from kitchen sink bubbling,at times yep pin holes leaking to the floor but from where? visually i cant see a leak..the elbow? should i demo it out and look? its the only area that i so far haven't demo out..,it is still in-cased in concrete you guys are batting a thousand nice job ty to all

gonna ask a buddy hes calling to night,my old boss is gonna give me his new number, wondering if going under the house is a better idea and dis-attach the copper pipe and rerun PVC..either way this suck cant go via bathroom rather not be exposed to that kind of asbestos..ty am sure i have some exposure doing construction for 30 years..aren't we a lucky bunch

Quote

...hope its not under the slab...

hj, you are wise to remain silent

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Actually im agreement with the last guy from Mo is right i bet its pin hole's in the pipe and bet its leaking from the elbow/45 i haven't exposed yet,it is clogged and when its clogged the only way the water would be able to get out is>>>>>>>>>>>>> a PIN Hole SO QUESTION IS CAN I DIG UNDER THE HOUSE BY THE OUT SIDE MAIN AND get under to unhook part of the copper pipe and dis connect it to replace it with PVC??? any plumbers with genius please respond..main out side is PVC and looks like a 6 " pipe could be 8" but to me looks smaller more like a 5" pipe..and yes im patient as can be always have been..and when i have some thing to say trust me i will say it..im smart enough to let people feed in put so to get the best solution with out panicking...good idea huh?

You are going to be digging one way or another. I prefer to work from above if able. It takes someone on site to determine the best course of action. Good luck.

thing is the inside is all mortar/concrete..and this guy did a number on these pipes..i have a friend who is a plumber who is gonna be on site on Friday..i agree im smarter than that and have done out side work with a pipe company for several years know the dangers and what to use to prevent being caved in pole shores to stabilize thew building etc..so my friend am prepared BUT you may be very right..will see im worried about asbestos in the walls for sure..that's Expensive..i know..ty for the advice

Not just that, but all drainage connections will be from the top half of the pipe upward, working from the side or bottom mean that you have to work around the pipe (with the pipe between you and what you are doing) more than half the time generally.

yea i know like i said im a multi-skilled Craftsman this being one of my some what weaker areas but have a friend whop is a plumber and gonna look at it your right again..HE will most likely give me direction..i always do him favors..but this sucks no matter which way any one looks at it it does,merry christmas Timberwolf55..lol any one want a shovel? or Quick Cut?

IF you have a 'raised slab' type of home you will be able to dig out underneath to access the piping.



have fun

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

had some friends come and look they suggested,which im a tad leery of doing is using liquid plumber,how ever some copper leaks cause blockages im sure so how smart is this to do?

chemicals will only destroy the pipes further. Copper is especially prone to damage from drain cleaners. Also, liquid drain cleaners don't work unless the drain line is already open; they don't unclog anything. If that was their suggestion, they aren't doing you any favors at all.



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what i did use was baking soda and hot water..i agree this seemed harmless..if i snake it it might cause even more damage..but sense i used the baking soda and drain opened up some ...hmmm leak seem to stop..wondering...i do agree with you though this is pissing me off..yea and agree again even though they are good in areas..well bill i trust hes 70 years old and been doing this a long time..so a maybe for him and Not snaking it that am sure will make it worse..still frustrated my other buddy Derrick mail box full..oh heck...what is bugging me is where the heck the water is coming from...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr still think the 45 in to the wall..haven't demo that at all YET...can if i find the leak for a temp fix solder it..



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Dont count on it the builder so far was a total IDI_T .. trust me if you saw how he landscaped the house..im gonna make money on it..but good thing most of it i can do my self,,its worth $150,i paid $47,500 for it..>GRIN..



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dump it BEFORE it becomes a money pit


wish I had - trapped now - too much $ already spent

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

im gonna flip it at that price..so yea your right..but This hey any one is it a bad idea to use chemicals or not to clear the clog in the drain? will it make it worse?

NO CHEMICALS

you can try to find a plumber who has a "Kinetic Water Ram" and the knowledge to use same



if used properly (works by inducing a water surge - hammer depending on set up) it is 'gentle to the piping' ~ sort of like a 'super power plunger'

ps. tool costs juuuust under $400 - plumber's price

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



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not on copper drains with pinholes in them.

the 'ram' will either:

clear the stoppage

or

'burst' the piping

either way the problem will get solved


sequence of operation:

tool is manually pumped/charged to desired air pressure (depends upon application)

all applicable/accessible piping 'openings' are plugged/stuffed with wet rags

piping is filled with water (port on side of tool for hose if necessary)

tool's adapter is inserted/pressed onto drain

trigger is pulled

shot of air is 'blown' into watter/stoppage creating a 'pressure wave' which either goes up a vent (attach hose to side of 'ram' for further flooding) or moves stoppage which is flushed away with the water or bursts pipe

I learned to use this tool clearing toilets at the NYC Dept of Correction (disposable plastic razors, etc. in Acorn S/S bowls)

if auger would not clear then use 'ram'

wad up a ball of newspaper - stuff in 'horn' - 'ram' blows paper through toilet BREAKING obstruction along the way - yes, that powerful

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638