I have been wanting to make a post to ask for advice on this for a few days, but had a hard time formulating my questions in a concise manner.

This is obviously related to the property I recently acquired which I found out more and more serious plumbing issues. Some of those I have corrected with help of the pros here, some others I am sure I have not yet found. I have made posts about having a shower with no p-trap under it, and a lav drain with a flex duct running sideways, a bar sink that drains uphill which I have eliminated, a gazebo with a toilet that runs over 180' with a sump pump dumping into the main line etc etc etc...

...and some of these are interconnected issues.

So here is one thing that bothers me.

I am at the nearest bathroom to the CO where the line exits the house. So this is like the last "stop".

I opened the cleanout on the outside, a mere twenty feet from the bathroom. I told someone at the bathroom to flush the toilet. He did, and no water went through the cleanout. I tried it a few times and eventually, after about 5 flushes or so, I saw water coming through, not a quick GUSH of water where you would expect, but a slow flow passing by and it continues for some time.

OK, this could only be two things right?

There is either a place that the water flows to, until that fills up, then it spills into the drain pipe slowly, which explains the slow flow I saw after several consecutive flushes.

This place water is draining into first, is either the ground below the concrete slab through a break in the pipe, or it could be a major belly, or adversed pitch section of pipe, right?

Now, if it's a break, I should see sand and dirt coming through, but I don't, just water. So I think I can conclude it's not a pipe break, most likely not.

So it has to be a reversed pitched section of pipe.

...and now I remember I recently eliminated a sump pump at the corner of the house where they put in an unpermitted bathroom addition, and I am starting to wonder, if it's possible they did not bother to pitch the drains from the addition to the existing system correctly, because they knew they have a pump...

Am I thinking straight?

I am trying to figure out what is the best way to verify what's going on, locate any breaks or adversed slopes in the system. I have to pin point the nature and location of the problem before even trying to solve it.

Is the solution to have the drains snaked then send a camera in?

What other steps can I take to diagnose or attempt to narrow the problem down?



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You are operating with a misconception. IF there is sag in the pipe, or any other problem with the slope. that section would ALWAYS be full of water, therefore, it does not have to fill up, so any water you added, such as flushing a toilet would just flow through it as if it were not there. Therefore, regardless of where the toilet is located that is probably how long it takes for the water to reach the cleanout.



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hj, I know what you are saying.

However, I don't think this is the case. There are some other indications, and events that would explain things better, but I need to explain it better. I will try after I organize my thoughts a bit. Stay tuned.

OK let me try.

First here is a layout of the house plan, as it's important. It is a duplex, the top half is one unit, and the bottom half is another.



The cleanout is at the south west corner, and it drains to the street westerly. I have already excavated down to find the pipe. Even though the clean out is PVC, I can see the pipe exiting at the house, is 3" CI. Right at that point there is a transition coupling to PVC. At the point of exit from the house, the invert of the CI pipe is 12.5" below finished floor elevation. This is the only pipe exiting, both units drain through this.

On the northwest corner is a bathroom of unit 1. This bathroom is pretty much original, all CI drains and copper supply lines. It has a 3" vent. Not much has been done to it. So it should be OK.

On the northeast corner are the utility rooms, water heater, washer dryer etc. It is also orignal from the 1950s, so no problems.

In the middle where the dividing walls between unit 1 and 2 is, used to be the common kitchen wall. On the north side the kitchen wall has a 2" vent and drain (which was the one I replaced the san tee and the galvanized section fell from the attic). That is still CI below, and I can see to the bottom elbow that drains westerly.

In unit 1, the south unit, the previous owner moved the sink, dishwasher to an island. Drain was unvented, that's the one I replumbed, with an AAV.

To the east in the backyard is a gazebo, inside a toilet, and he ran a 4" sewer line from there, and eventually connected to a sump pump to tie into pipes inside the house. That sump pump has since been disconnected as part of my effort to legalize this whole mess.

On the south east corner where the tie in from the sump pump is, he created a new bathroom addition. Bath tub, two lav sinks, toilet etc...I assumed he ran a pipe from there in the west direction, to eventually tie in with the last bathroom, as well as the drains coming from the north unit, then exit the house.

NOW, let me go over what I found.

Last week, I hired a plumber to disconnect the sump pump. A cut has been made where the sump pump pipe connected to the house sewer, and a cap put on the house side.



I remember the plumber mentioned in passing, that when he cut the pipe, a lot of dirty water backed out of the house side. He waited till the flow stopped, then capped it.

A few days ago, I did the flush experiment in bath 2, the bathroom on the south west side of the property, the last stop before the pipe exits the house, and it took multiple flushes to have any flow pass the cleanout.

My guess is the new pipe they put in, illegally, from the new bathroom in the south east corner, to the renovated bathroom in the south west, was not done with proper pitch. They didn't care because they have a pump.

The reason it took several flushes is because the plumber vacated the pipes last week when he did the sewer cap. All the built up waste and water from there backed into the pit. Now it's been filled back up with the toilet flush.

quote; he reason it took several flushes is because the plumber vacated the pipes last week when he did the sewer cap. All the built up waste and water from there backed into the pit.

That is a 'minor' detail you omitted. If that is the case, then the water should flow past the cleanout much sooner. BUT, Either the drains flow TO the pit, and should have been sealed, even though they will stay full of water, or they drain away and are obstructed which is why the water flows in to the pit. In any case the pipes should have been sealed so water NEVER AGAIN enters the pit.

This is my theory.

When they plumbed the illegal bathroom in the back, they did it with reversed pitch or the pipe collapsed. Later on they added the gazebo toilet and had to add a sewage container and pump to bring the waste up, so they were able to operate the illegal bathroom even with the grade wrong because the pump was doing part of gravity's work.

That pipe was full of water. When I did the sewer cap and cut the pipe at the top of that pit, everything backed out into the pit. Now when I flush that toilet, it goes into filling up the pipe, until it is full again.

Incidentally, last week I was fixing an electrical mess, the guy had ran a flex aluminum conduit underground. Original EMT conduit goes from panel 30' to the kitchen wall, he kept that, but moved the oven. So he went from there with a flex metal conduit to the oven. Those can't be used underground, so I rewired through the attic. Then I pulled out the abandoned conductors from that conduit. Those conductors were wet, coated with what seems like soapy suds. That means there is a leak for sure, right?

At this point, I like to go to each room with a drain, utility room, bath 1, bath 2, kitchen 1, kitchen 2 etc and try to determine which of those "work", meaning they tie in after the trouble spot, be it reversed pitch the pit, or leak...

If say I turn on the laundry room faucet and I see flow through the street CO, how do I tell the difference between flow from that fixture, versus flows from spilling over after the back pipe or leak voids been filled? Some kind of dye?

Have a camera run through the piping.

Steve, with what I have seen so far I think there are multiple issues and definite back pitch, messed up remodel and leaks.

The last time I had a broken pipe and sent down a camera it just got to a murky submerged section and can't tell what's going on there and beyond.

I am going to send a camera down but right now I am trying to get as much info as possible prior so at the end of it I will have a complete picture.

Can a camera go down a 2" or 1.5" CI line of a laundry room (vent is also 1.5".

Is there a way from the roof to determine which way that drain runs? I mean once it goes down does the pipe head east or south etc...