i haven't heard from our plumbing inspector but the building inspector was by the job this afternoon and he told me CSST has been banned in mass. he said the plumbing inspector's phone has been ringing off the hook.
more to follow...

What?Wait a second What did you say?Waiting to hear more.Good Luck.

[permittingservices.montgomerycountymd.gov]

we have known about that for a while now ironranger and if this is what packy is referencing then it may not be banned.

install it properly and you will have no problems.

have heard of a problem around here just back east as far as i know

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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

I believe this notice supercedes the one Iron Ranger posted...

[www.gastite.com]

Lets have more details when you get them Packy...

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Edited 1 times.

I say ban it everywhere and go back to what works for endless years without failure points.

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Everything in Plumbing can be repaired or replaced.

The unions must have decided it doesn't take enough time to install it.

We went over this in April concerning this product as well as bonding compared to grounding, high risk punjure vulnerability, black sheathing protection compared to the green:

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Edited 1 times.

Why ban it if it's installed properly then no problems. Hey dunbar, it's not made of plastic!
If grounded and installed properly I don't see a problem. The same thing happens to iron pipe too, have seen holes blown out from lightning strikes in black pipe too. So what's the difference then?

Amen to that. There's only soo much time that can be spent eating soup while one watches another work.

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Everything in Plumbing can be repaired or replaced.

I've seen dogs chew through it,

I've seen coat hangers slowly wear the protective coating off it,

I've seen this strectched like clothes line across the house,

I've seen more leaks at the fittings than black iron,

I've yet to see one lightning strike blow a hole in schedule 80 steel piping,

I've seen corrosion leaks from those testing with dish detergent that ruins the piping,

I've seen the workmanship of this product follow the liking of "quick and easy" to a point of making me sick.



Running black iron takes some skill if you're going to put it up and make it go where you want it to. This keeps a good deal away because it takes equipment, or 100 trips to the store asking for measurements or recuts. You can always tell when someone is inexperienced by the number of couplings they use.



What a lot of people, and plumbers seem to forget is that whatever you install in a home, expect the unexpected in how it will be treated, what it will be exposed to. This changes the perception greatly because now you have to understand the "what if" scenario.



Too often I hear of others praising the fast and easy, and before you cut your nose off in spite of your face, you're not understanding what "fast and easy" causes in problems down the road.


It's a perfection thing with me, it's a guarantee that when I do something I don't have the worries of when it's going to fail against other products that could easily simplify my work. But why?


Am I that selfish? Sure, I could rough the gas in a home in less than an hour, instead of 4 hours with black iron.

But you know what? What type of piping do you have to reconnect to when you get to the fixtures........BLACK IRON. There's a reason for it.



There's a reason why there's gas lines done in Black Iron that have an everlasting life.....without failure. Why in the world why you want to rock that boat when it does so well? A durable product that the only reason you'd remove it is because you're remodeling or adding new. That's it.


Why would I chance a product that either detergents/nails/lightning and probably the right kind of mice could easily allow a leak of an explosive gas into a structure...

all because it's easy and fast.



This new generation of plumbers is scary because they seem to reference old tales of change to support their "now" belief that it's okay.


I'm not part of that generation, and I will never be, no matter how easy it makes the job. I'm designed by education to perform at a different level.

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Everything in Plumbing can be repaired or replaced.



Edited 1 times.

I've got to side with Dunbar on this one. There's more to plumbing than 'ease of installation'.

I also agree with Dunbar however; he forget about the kids target practicing in the garage with there air rifle that punched a hole in the CSST pipe. Is that a product failure:

12-4-08, 7:20am

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3 years before Google started PlumbingSupply.com has been THE best plumbing supplier on the web. Please visit our sponsor [www.PlumbingSupply.com]

1. It seems like counteproductive, if you have an open basement with a straight run, to use CSST instead of iron pipe.
2. If that were done clotheshangers would not be a problem.
3. Who uses schedule 80 pipe and fittings for a house system?
4. If the piping has to be drilled through joists, then you either use CSST or a lot of couplings.

No. Neither is it a product failure when the customer shoots an entire clip of 22's through his ceiling and damages a water line, his air conditioner, and his roof.

And besides, if you finish the job too quickly, you just have to start another one.

ok dunbar, so i take it you dont use pvc pipe, because if you do then your whole statement is a load of crap. sure i like what i know is goign to last a while but in todays world either you go the easy route or you lose work because you cant compete with either the price or the speed or most likely both. sure you will find a few customers that prefer the old way but wait another 5-10 years and see if they wouldnt rather you use the stuff that isnt going to tear up half their house to add a line for a stove.

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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

Quote

ok dunbar, so i take it you dont use pvc pipe, because if you do then your whole statement is a load of crap. sure i like what i know is goign to last a while but in todays world either you go the easy route or you lose work because you cant compete with either the price or the speed or most likely both. sure you will find a few customers that prefer the old way but wait another 5-10 years and see if they wouldnt rather you use the stuff that isnt going to tear up half their house to add a line for a stove.

Load of crap?


Did you buy your logic at Walmart when you typed this signature line: PLUMBERS "Protecting the Health of the Nation" ?????



I find it comical to criticize my statements when the quote above signifies you care more about "cosmetics" of a home than its functionality.


Lose work?


You're losing work because you follow the herd. I don't and never will. I'd rather do ONE job using quality materials than TEN jobs that were of "questionable" value and had hazards along with their use.


I've been told I have a tendency to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but why would a simple wire coat hanger be such an issue to a gas line all of a sudden? See where I'm going with this?

Who'd da thunk that when you went off to work and put fido in the basement with your beloved water heater that the dog would take a liking to that rubber toy in the form of a tube leading to the water heater. Why don't you try to disprove that statement because somehow I pulled it out of my ass and put it on the internet to prove a point.




Now you think I "don't" use PVC piping? Given that I have limited options of "what works" in homes these days, I guess I could put galvanized piping back in the walls, copper, maybe cast iron too if the customer wants it. What's obvious is those 3 right there have a gauged life in plumbing, meaning there's endless timelines on some of those products as I type right now that was installed in the 1920's-30's-40's. Pretty impressive in my opinion and I'd say 50 years for a piping system is pretty darn good considering what all runs through it.


I install less than 50 feet of PVC pipe a year. That's it. No more. Count that as the stub for sewage ejector pumps, sump pumps, bits and pieces of trap arms broke off in walls or every once in awhile a kitchen sink drain line that was set at 4' supports instead of 2' like it should be when running 110 degree water through it on a dishwasher dishcharge.


Have you ever seen a cast iron, galvanized drain sag between supports? Get hot and get "soft" ???? Absolutely not. It's the condition the piping has, it gets super brittle the older it gets, the more hot/cold interaction it faces.


You want me to follow the crowd and accept the thinking that it's okay to throw in products that has some sizeable considerations to their use, because apparently if I don't I'm out of a job?


I don't think like that, I hammer this keyboard projecting the safety of the products we install more than anything most times. Just your objections to my thinking has put you in a category of "fast easy and cheap" and my friend I don't operate on those principles.

Put something solid in my hands that will expire years after I'm gone and I'm a memory, be able to bury that product and dig it up 50-80 years later (brass fittings for a great example) and I'll have my name on that install faster than Rosie O'donnell can get mad. There's a reason why there's builders in all states and a select few offer "the ritz" of quality and professionalism and they do use products like cast iron for main stacks because they know the track record beyond the tear out because it's old.

It works for our school systems today, it works for all buildings over 4 stories tall and sometimes less, something to be said about products moving into the 100 year mark that has provided a reliable function of plumbing for all levels, all territories of piping systems across the board.



I care about my work, my ability to provide the best for customers whether they want to afford it or not. I won't sacrifice quality just to stay in the pack and keep the job. I've got more dignity to stay in a race that has recourse for when things go wrong.


Pretty ****ing pathetic that property owners have to now put into a body of thinking that when the next lightning storm comes around that they have to wonder if their gas piping is going to leak. ???????


We can thank those plumbers that believe in the now, not the later after the check is cashed and saved a dime in regards to safety and human kind. X me out of the equation because I'll never fit in it.

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Everything in Plumbing can be repaired or replaced.



Edited 1 times.

dlh?Pvc is better than cast iron,in many way's.How do you mean what you said?Sorry maybe I should stay out of this one.Good Luck.

i was covering more than just dwv. it mainly encompasses pex and csst

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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

Richard Tretheway on This Old House will be crushed...he was in love with it!

he ia in love with anything as long as it is the easiest and quickest way to do something!

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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

Besides it looks good on camera.