My brother just purchased a manufactured home recently in central North Carolina. Naturally the next month after he moves in, he discovered that the side of his private road was very wet. With the help of his neighbor that had a backhoe, they discovered a leak which they then repaired. The problem being that the bill is still showing that it is leaking badly. 30,000 gallons for one person in a month is the clue.

The water main (3/4"meter/tap per the water company) is down on the main street. Along with his meter box, there are 3 other meter boxes each that run up the side of privately maintained road for about 300' before that street turns to another private dirt for another 300-400'. At some point his and two other lines have to cross under the road to the three properties while I suspect one other continues down the road to a fourth property.

So that brings me to one of the many issues in fixing this.
The ground is all clay and from his house to the property across the road there are a good number of trees as well. The line was installed I expect when the home was placed in 2020, so 24 years ago. I suspect perhaps tree roots could have cracked the piping or a connection issue could be an issue.

There are no isolation valves between the water main and the property, so we have about 800' of piping that is not marked anywhere and the town has no records and neighbors don't seem to know either. It seems impossible to do anything but hand dig from the water main up the road to where it apparently has to cross over for fear hooking into someone else's water lines. I can only imagine they all run up the first private road together at least.
I called one water detection company but they wanted $2500 for 4 hours and won't guarantee they will locate the leak. Another thing is I could be finding leaks on someone elses water line if they are all in the same trench.

I guess I am looking for suggestions. I realize running all new water line (I was thinking PEX?) would be the best but again seems risky in even digging a new trench alongside where I expect the original lines are located. I was thinking if I could do that, I would buy 300' sections and put insolation/shutoff valves in a meter box for future issues which would be much better than now. The only way to shutoff water now is at the street's main meter.
I also am not sure how the pipe was repaired recently. I believe it was a "barbed" type connect which they double hose clamped. I don't know the type of connector they used either, whether it was plastic or brass. I realize I need to have a plumber to make all the connections regardless which route is taken.
Has anyone used an "ultra-high radio frequency" detector for detecting leaks underground? I have read that they are best for clay type soil on PE type piping.

there has to be an isolation valve at the meter.

anyway... given that the original installation is suspected to be poorly done, i would bite the bullet and replace from the meter to the house.
i know its alot of money and work but trying to fix a poor installation is like a dog chasing his tail. you might spend half as much money finding and fixing the current leak only to have another one show up in a year.
i would up the size to one inch. you can get a 1000 foot roll of one inch pex and have no buried joints to worry about.

have you already verified and confirmed the leak is not inside the house but outside between house and meter?

sum, he said the meter showed 30,000 gallons extra water used. i may be wrong but if the leak was in the house, 30,000 gallons would show up somewhere.

Packy I don't know if he has a manufactured home, does it mean the supply line runs once entered the house will be inside walls all the way or can it be like the slab homes we have down here the runs from say one bath to the next can be below grade and buried under? If it's buried it can still be leaking in the soil and eroding without detection right?

I kept thinking there has to be a way to narrow down the leak at least down to (1) from meter to house or (2) inside house cold side or (3) inside house hot side. I don't know may be there is an shutoff at the house but buried over, or at least one by the water heater for the hot side isolation. If there isn't one the first thing I'll do is to find where it enters the house, shut off water at the meter, install the shutoff valve, which is something that has to be done regardless anyway. No idea how deep the lines are buried in NH has to be a few feet below?

So to clarify, I live in NH but this issue is on a manufactured home on a crawl space in mid North Carolina. There is a shutoff valve underneath the home (of course, where you would have to crawl under with very limited space as I can testify to) making it near impossible to use. It is quicker to go down to the road and shut the main valve at the meter off.

I believe the pipe that was patched was about 12-18 inches deep. He did this with the help of a neigbor that owns a backhoe but neither of them are plumbers. I have been down before and after the repair had been made. Now seeing that after a month of billing has happened since the repair he is still using 30,000 gallons I am sure there is either an additional leak or the one they made is still leaking. I have been through the crawlspace and have not seen any obvious wet stops so I think the leak is between the meter and the house especially considering it is 800 plus feet of pipe that crosses under a road and possibly another persons driveway.

I understand it would be best to replace everything from the street to the house and have an outside shutoff valve, but the cost to trench that without hitting a neighbors water line during this process seems daunting to say the least.

I thought a 3/4" line seemed small considering it is going 800' but the water company shows it is a 3/4" meter and there has been no complaints of pressure drop.

Also I question when running pex under a private dirt road, should it be incased in a conduit or is it OK to just pack it in sand and then backfill with the clay/gravel on top?

Looking at the lot, my GUESS is that more likely the leak is not from the meter up the first road, but from the point it crosses under the road/driveway and then through his yard that has trees/bushes. If I could locate the point of where it goes under the roadway and then install a meter box and isolation/shutoff valve there, could I adapt and replace the water line from that point to go under the road to the outside of the home and then install another meter box just outside before it enters the crawl space?

Just trying to get any reasonable ideas that could work reducing the chances of neighboring lines.

NewfoundL, as a homeowner and brother, I admire your desire to help your brother. That main should not have failed after just 24 years. However, given that one homeowner repair has not solved the problem, and that your questions span the entire scope of the problem from leak detection to materials to burial depth to repair technique, the odds of a second homeowner repair succeeding are essentially zero. You need a professional.

30,000 gallons/month is over 40 gallons/hour. That's a lot of water. I would take a couple of hours to walk that 800 foot line very slowly, looking for any signs of dampness (mud, green grass, lush plants). Then call a leak detection service and a plumber.



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I have several observations and comments.

Do you know how deep these supply lines are? Your brother and neighbor dug that up last time to make the repair, using a backhoe, so they should know how deep they dug. Are we talking about 18" or are we talking about 48"?

How did your brother pinpoint his leak last time? Did he use a leak detection service? Was it a puddle of water he saw or something he heard that helped him locate the leak in the first place?

Any chance he fixed the leak, but the backhoe operation damaged some piping in the process of digging and the backfill wasn't done properly? I would say that spot is a suspect for a second look.

Why does it takes a full billing cycle to see 30,000 gallons being billed to notice that there is a still a leak? Can't you tell the moment the leak was fixed from the meter? I mean, when there is no leak/usage the meter doesn't spin, if there is a leak or usage the meter spins, depends on your particular model or meter some analog with a mechanical dial that spins, the digital ones have readout the changes. Right now you can confirm the meter is spinning with no usage in the house right? By observing the meter say 1 hour apart, you can tell how fast the leak is happening if during that hour there is no usage inside the house. Can you provide that number how many gallons per hour? I say an hour because some meters while spinning, the dial does not increment until 10 gallons are moved.

Your bill says 30,000 gallons consumed. Average monthly usage rate for one person is 3,000 gallons. So if I assume your brother's household has 4 occupants, that is 12,000 of actual usage. This means the leak is 30,000 minus 12,000 = 18,000 gallons, that is 600 gallons a day or 25 gallons an hour or 0.41 gallons per minute. Consider a kitchen faucet when on is flowing say 2 gallons a minute, this leak is 25% of an open faucet. It's not a trickle but not enough to lose your normal water pressure in the line.

Still I would at least make an effort to confirm and isolate where the leak is before spending money and time on replacing the entire outside line on a hunch. You said there is a valve inside the crawlspace that will shut off the house water, so if you have one person go to the meter, see the meter spinning (leaking), another person go to the crawlspace to turn that valve off. Call each other on the phone, if by turning off, the meter stops spinning, you have a leak inside your house. If the meter does not stop spinning at all than the leak is between meter and house valve. You can do the same exercise (if the leak is inside the house) at the water heater, if you turn off the valve at the inlet to the water heater, if meter stop spinning, the leak is inside the house on the hot side, otherwise it is on the cold side.

Again how deep are these pipes? If it's 18" to 24", it may be worth it to dig down where the pipe passes below the house and install a shutoff that is easy to get to without crawling in there. That will be useful for future projects anyway to have an accessible shutoff to the house. You said these lines from the meter to the house had shared the trench with other properties. Anyway to locate where your brother's line is exclusively his? Where the line crosses his property line? It may be worth it to dig down and install a shutoff valve there as well. Now you can tell whether the leak is exclusively his or closer to the meter and plan accordingly.

As far as new supply lines, have you considered HDPE pipes? I think those are more heavy duty than PEX.

One other thought, if the leak is on a section where other neighbors lines are buried together, as a neighbor I also would hesitate to dig and risk damages to their lines. Is this on private land? Can you even dig down without the city's approval? Is that path/road jointly owned by the neighbors like a HOA or co-op? Have you talked to them are they having excess usages? Have they made repairs recently? Any chance to all chip in the dig a new trench and run all new lines for all and run them with better pipes, install isolation valves along the for each owner inside underground valve boxes?

I am in the process of trying to get a leak detection company to come out and contact a plumber. I am just trying to contain the cost. I would like to replace the whole line with shutoff valves in between but that is going to be expensive to say the least and he can't afford that.

Hi and thanks for your comments.

To clarify, he was notified by the water company that the usage was way over the previous normal as well as his neighbor (with the backhoe) noticed standing water on the side of the private dirt road that he and my brother live on. From the reports I got from my brother the line is between 12-18" deep. He did say that digging by hand is like digging concrete as the clay is so compacted.

Initially I has having him check the meter during intervals to determine whether it was leaking or not. After they repaired the leak, he said the little leak detector meter was still moving but slowly, so I think there are other leaks over that 800' span of line.

Just to clarify, he lives alone so there is only one person using the water. So if there were no leaks it should likely be about 2-3 thousand gallons per month. I have not been able to find anyone including his neighbor that know exactly how the lines run. I would make sense that from the main street where the meters are located, that all 3 or 4 lines run up along the private dirt road and then turn again onto the other private dirt road that the affected house is on. The question that is unknown is where the lines go under the second dirt road and where they diverge for the 3 separate homes.

At this point I really don't have many options other than calling in a leak detection company and plumber. I just was told that I need a permit to do any repairs or alterations anyway. I definitely want to install a box with a shutoff valve at the entrance to the home during this process. I can't understand who thought having a valve 40' away from where you enter the crawl space was adequate to shut the water off.

I don't believe the neighbor will agree to run all new lines as he owns both the other places and his house is probably another 500' away from my brothers.

I do remember that when they did locate the first leak, they double hose clamped it and were careful backfilling it. The problem is for me that I was not there to see any of this work. With all the clay in the ground I wonder how much water will come up through 18" of it to show evidence of where a leak might be.