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Author:
sum (FL)
So here is the conclusion of a drain issue I have been dealing with for over two years now.
As a quick summary I get periodic main drain backups and eventually I noticed that it seems to always occur after a big rain event and the 6" cleanout at the property line that connects my 4" drain to the 6" city lateral is always full when this happened. It is a city problem and they are responsible to fix it. They did a camera inspection and located the leak with a locator, they made one attempt in September 2023, and failed because they dug down and found the water table 3' below but the pipe was 5' deep so they can't see the break with everything submerged. They did cut and replace a section of pipe with a break, but I think that break was caused by their own equipment during excavation. So when it happened again, they said they need to come back and cut up the road to replace the run in it's entirety when the water table is lower in January 2024.
If you are interested in the previous threads where I documented this, here they are:
PART I: [www.plbg.com]
PART II: [www.plbg.com]
PART III: [www.plbg.com]
PART IV: [www.plbg.com]
So fast forward into 2024 one day they showed up and saw cut the asphalt on the road within the envelope they draw back in 2023.
Another week they showed up with half a dozen trucks plus a back hoe and other equipment, closed the road down and excavated the entire length from the 6" CO to where they need to tie in.
As you can see again 3-4' down they ran into water so they put a pump into the trench and pumped the water out, the other side of the pump where the water evacuated spilled the water everywhere onto the roads, so one of them opened a manhole and extended the outlet hose into the manhole so it dumped the trench water down the sewer.
By the way they are using those pipes where the hub ends have a push to fit gasket.
Once the trench is cleared they continued and made a new pipe run. Only problem is the trench is not aligned with the fittings' angles from either end so they need to use elbows to get the correct angle.
What they did to correct for the angles was to use Fernco rubber couplings. Now when I used these rubber couplings I made sure the two pipes meet (no gap), and they are aligned horizontally and vertically. When they did it they just "shoved" the two pipes into the coupling a little bit so the hose clamps catch, and they used the big gap that is now sleeved only by the rubber coupling to correct for the angular misalignment. I mentioned this to the installer that these pipes need to bottom into each other or else it may come apart again or if they run a snake down that line the snake may chew up the bare rubber. He said it's over 5' deep it's not a problem. I am not so sure.
You see how the coupling goes on the pipe? They even use two couplings back to back with a short piece of pipe to make an elbow.
I mentioned in another thread the new Fernco XL coupling that is like 10" long I guess it will sell well for municipalities to bridge misaligned pipes by just bending or kinking those elbows.
It's not my property it's the city's so I'll keep my mouth shut but I can't imagine the entire crew, all that equipment and labor involved in digging this up, only to put in a few inferior joints like this. Even I as a HO would have done better by getting the correct elbows, and used the proper transition couplings like the Fernco RC (Strong back) series.
They then filled the trench back up with gravel, yes gravel goes to the side and top of the pipe (I thought code wanted a sand bed under and adjacent to and several inch above or at least if I were repairing or running a new 3" or 4" line the inspector would have required that but since this is not subject to inspection they can do whatever), then they pushed the excavated dirt back into the trench and rolled over the excavated area a few times.
Then a few months later they came back and rolled over the area again and filled in some asphalt.
Now, one of the problem was in doing all this work, they basically destroyed the swale. In 2023 six months before they tore all this up the first time, I put in a driveway. That driveway permit was subjected to a public works engineering inspection and they required that I dug a swale - because the driveway apron crossed over the property line to tie into the edge of pavement, it reduces water infiltration rate and they need a swale, so they told me I need to dig this shallow V shaped ditch along the frontage, that slopes away from the edge of pavement and be at least 2" lower, then put sod down. This was what I had to do to get the driveway permit passed. This was how it looked before they tore it all up the first time in September 2023 and again in January 2024.
Now the swale is all gone. Furthermore, because they had the roller rolled over the gravel, this section next to the road bed is hard and compact like concrete. I can't lay any new sod down it will just die off.
I mentioned this to the crew who paved the road and they said I should talk to the city and they will send a swale cleanup crew to deal with this, I called them they came out and looked and said they will "file a request" and 3 months gone by nothing.
How can the engineering section of the Public Works require the homeowner to slope and sod a swale to get a driveway permit approved, and yet the utilities section of the same Public Works come and plow it all up and leave me with this, should their own work be at least the same quality as they demanded the homeowners? Not to mention all the soda cans sandwich wrappers and water bottles I picked up all over after they finished.
Edited 2 times.
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Author:
vic (CA)
WOW!!!!!
Sum, thanks so much for sharing all this and in such detail.
"Final Chapter?" I sure hope so for you.
In the early/mid 1970's that I worked for Los Angeles County Mechanical Department including doing and/or helping with piping repairs in parks, public golf courses, even sinking public landfills, beaches, etc both inside and out there is no way some what you documented would be acceptable by management and would not have been allowed no matter how deep down the repairs were.
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Author:
sum (FL)
vic, I hope I won't see any blockage on the lateral from now on. Keeping fingers crossed.
They told me that line starts from my house so I am the upstream most connection therefore that lateral serves only me.
It amazes me that when they used those rubber couplings, not only the angles are not aligned between the two pipes, these pipes do not even meet, I think there may be an inch or more of gap between the pipes the city plumber just used the coupling to bridge the big gap and correct for the bad alignment. I think they will probably order a boat load of these new XL coupling because they can kink it to do a 90.
Another thing I just noticed, may be it's the picture, but I don't know if that hose clamp was put on correctly, does it look like part of it is on the rubber and part of it on the pipe? It may be just the excess from the clamp coming out crooked after the hex screw was tightened, can't tell for sure that the upper part of the coupling has any metal around it.
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Author:
vic (CA)
Hard to tell. I wish I could have been there telling them my thoughts.
Am guessing they might be looking to buy some XXXXXL couplings.
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Author:
sum (FL)
I was there when they did it and mentioned the alignment issues and asked if they need to use an elbow, he said these rubber couplings are designed to correct these problems and can take a heavy load. I had to bite my tongue but I am sure if the work by utilities had to be inspected by the city like they do for homeowners they wouldn't pass. I think public infrastructure should be held to higher construction standards not lower.
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