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 water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: homer14 (MI)

Hello,

I've got a barn about 25' from my house give or take 5'. I'd like to accomplish these things:

1. get water to the barn from house
2. drain water from the barn to house
3. optional, build a system for a toilet (with grinding pump?)

Inside my barn I've got a 1.25" PVC sticking up from concrete that I put there to attach to in the future (now). If its not enough I'll just drill and put something bigger in. I imagine that I'll have the following water using items in the barn (gray water wash sink, a mini-bar sink, a wall urinal and bathroom sink). I'd like to consider what it would take to be able to put a toilet such as using a grinding pump to grind the toilet paper and poop etc. and pump to the house.

I'm imagining the following but am looking for advice from experts. I plan to call several i know in person too.

1. a PEX or Black PVC line between the buildings 4' down, run at a slight tilt. needs to hit my house basement.

2. a PVC drain line between the buildings in the same 4' down trench, perhaps under the pex?

3. a pump on either or both sides to get the water/waste to the house and then vertical to the house drainage pvc which is under the main floor. the pump may need to be a grinding pump on the barn side if using a toilet, or just a regular pump if only using a standing urinal and some sinks?

4. inline instant water heater will be used for hot water on the barn side, so one line of water inbound to barn?

Is this do-able? I dont want to do a french drain because my well is only 15' ish from the barn and on the same side that the lines need to hit the house.

If do-able, any suggestions on:
- pvc pitch from barn to house (note im ground level to start and basement is standard depth)
- pex or black pvc
- can i use the same trench
- is 1.25" pvc large enough from barn
- pumps on both sides (house side will be 6ft below floor where house drain pvc line is)
- grinding pump?
- inline instant water heater model/brand?
- etc.

Thanks! I'm sure ill learn a lot. I'd like to do this myself but if thats a stupid idea, ill hire.


PIC Links (click them)

[ibb.co]

[ibb.co]

Added PIC Links
[ibb.co] - 6/8/24, A PDF showing an example of a sewage ejector approach?



Edited 4 times.

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: bernabeu (SC)

HIRE


what you want is complex AND must be buried 4 FEET DEEP unless you are ONLY going to use it summertime and can DRAIN COMPLETELY before winter


one can use the same trench BUT there are elevation and separation REQUIREMENTS

i would go with a 'grinder' W/C into a sewage ejector pit/system and run 2" to the house

yes, if HW made locally 1 water line is just fine (PEX continuous run no joints underground)


best of luck if DIYing

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: homer14 (MI)

Thanks for the comment on an ejector. I did some searching and found an example pic from some PDF which I believe is what you're referring to?

Would the ejector system be placed outside the barn near the house as in the 3rd link I added and pasted below? So I would just do a gravity style (can this be 2" or must be 4"?) drain toward the ejector system from the barn, then the single ejector system would be outside of my house but fed into the house via 2" and dump into the house side 4" gravity fed existing system?

[ibb.co]



Edited 1 times.

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: packy (MA)

i would look into a 'saniflo' system.

it has a grinder pump and tank that accepts its own toilet and inlets for two fixtures (sinks)

the discharge is one inch and can be ran underground to your house and tie into the house sewer.

check the saniflo site info for height and distance the discharge can run. I saw 15 feet in height and 125 feet horizontally. but double check.
the discharge and water line can be run in the same trench if the water line is 12 inches higher.
saniflo site...

[www.google.com]

Post Reply

 important point
Author: packy (MA)

i saw some electric wires run underground.
you should get dig safe to make sure there is nothing where you plan to trench.

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: homer14 (MI)

Hi Packy,

That looks like a great option. It seems even at 60' (probably 30' over my needs) away I could go vertical 12'. With this approach. I'd just have the saniflo system in the barn and run discharge pipe underground to the house along with the vertical and nothing in between, sound right to you?

I think I saw that the discharge is only 1". That seems small to me but the grinder must work well.

[www.saniflo.com]

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: bernabeu (SC)

packy

the word of god



or

Quote

the single ejector system would be outside of my house but fed into the house via 2" and dump into the house side 4" gravity fed existing system



is also correct

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: packy (MA)

so bern, leave your contact info and phone number for homer.
it might also be correct but if the system is used in the winter and the float switch sticks, he can call you to go outside in the cold MI temperatures to remove the tank cover and do the repairs.
P/S don't call me..

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: packy (MA)

yes, one inch pvc works great for the discharge.
one drawback is the macerating pump makes noise when it is operating. not terribly loud but you know when it is pumping. you will need to run a vent thru the roof as well.

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: bsipps (PA)

I second the saniflo approach it is a great product if a gravity system is not possible

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: bernabeu (SC)

my FIRST response to the OP:

Quote

...what you want is complex AND must be buried 4 FEET DEEP unless you are ONLY going to use it summertime and can DRAIN COMPLETELY before winter
...





ps. a gravity system IS possible, merely very very expensive


since the HOUSE drains by gravity, the barn on the SAME property could also drain by gravity albeit with major work

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: homer14 (MI)

Thanks everyone for the potential solutions!

Packy,

As well be dropping 4' into the earth on the 1" outlet of the saniflo solution, we'll be going down 4', sideways about 25', then back up 6-8'. I'm assuming this is ok? Versus, someone putting the toilet in their basement where it would be going straight up for the most part (right out of the top of the pump where its outlet is). Note: id' have to do a U-turn (more resistance?) and head into the ground with the saniflo's im reading specs on.

If that is ok, may I extend the question to my barn loft. Could this toilet be placed in the barn loft which would add an additional 14' of drop to the 4' more into the earth prior to the sideways and then vertical on the house side? All assuming the distance traveled "down/sideways" is within the sideways distance limits of their spec?

I'm thinking downward wouldnt hurt anything but this is what I'm wondering just in case. I imagine a bunch of waste sitting behind the check valve at all times underground and up to the rim of the rise on the house side. Does this sound accurate, like a sump pump and the waste sitting above its check valve?

[edit x2]
thinking this through more. then my lower sink would become an issue as it wouldnt drain into the pump. and now wondering if the saniflow has to be attached to the toilet (i believe i saw that in the specs) or if it can be somewhere lower in the barn and gravity fed to its location?

Thinking more. I'd need two saniflo's i guess if i wanted a toilet/2sinks in loft and a sink on barn floor level. Correct? If so, i my just go with saniflo system on main level with sink, a utility sink, and one sink upstairs draining to one of the sink inputs (3 sinks). comments?



Edited 2 times.

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: bsipps (PA)

Bern according to the ops drawing the secondary structure is well below the incoming sewer line to the main house deeming it impossible to add a bathroom without a pump or raising the floor… unless I’m missing something in the drawing



Edited 1 times.

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: packy (MA)

the reality here is that you have many options, all of which are do-able.

one option would be the toilet and 2 sinks tied into the saniflo upstairs.
the third sink (first floor) would us a pump like this.
Hartell 801284; LTP-1 Drain Pump.

so there are many combinations you can use.
the 2 pump system would of course need two discharge pipes in the trench.

Post Reply

 Thanks for the continued support and input clap
Author: homer14 (MI)

Thanks for continued support and input.

Packy, could i have the following?

- saniflo on main level with sink (small bathroom), 1st saniflo sink input
- 2nd sink on main level (main barn washing sink), 2nd saniflo sink input
- 3rd sink in loft (draining into pipe shared with 2nd sink), shared 2nd saniflo sink input

Resulting in one saniflo system and one pump..?

Or must i two-pump it with an example 2nd pump you mentioned to deal with the lower sink?

-- [edit] side question

can i have a sinks only one pump setup with a sink on lower level and a sink in loft (upper level)? just considering this quick, probably an easy question for you.



Edited 2 times.

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: homer14 (MI)

hi bsipps,

I believe the saniflo pump itself deals with this issue. supporting a veritcal rise of x' per x' distance. In my case, it will easily pump vertically 6-7 feet after going about 30' or even 50' to the main building from the barn.

Post Reply

 Water line and drainage
Author: packy (MA)

sure you can..
if the saniflo can handle the volume of a flushing toilet, a bathtub and a sink as they show on their website, it can certainly handle what you are proposing.



Edited 1 times.

Post Reply

 Re: water line and drainage - 25' to from barn and house
Author: bernabeu (SC)

the OP's 'drawing' is a 'stock' PDF pic of an exterior ejector pit

not

the OP's actual buildings

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Post Reply

 Re: Water line and drainage
Author: homer14 (MI)

Thanks Packy.

I had thought it was mentioned i would need a separate pump if i had two water utilities on two different levels. This is why i wondered if i could get away with the following (excluding a toilet in this case)

- sink and pump on lower (this will be a utility sink)
- sink on upper (this will be a mini bar sink), gravity drained to lower system, sharing pump

Again, this is excluding the toilet, so just two sinks. Do they have to be on the same level if both are sinks only?

What pump would you recommend if this case is doable? Reminder, ill be going about (25-30' + 4' deep) from pump to house side, then up 6-7' into gravity fed house drain under main floor.

Thanks again for all of your help this has been great. Great to see options out there that are easier and smaller in regard to piping, etc. I've leaned away from the toilet I think, I originally had different plans but i think 2 sinks will do for now so all I really need is the water to the barn and the pump back to the house with a vertical rise at the end.

Post Reply

 Re: Water line and drainage
Author: bernabeu (SC)

sinks are 'grey water'

simply dig a dry well to receive it

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Post Reply

 Re: Water line and drainage
Author: homer14 (MI)

hi bernabeu,

i considered that, if only doing sinks, but it would be on the well-side of my house. the well line is probably about 15' away from the barn, running to the house 6' down or whatever it is, and the well itself maybe ~100' deep. i thought that might be a no-no in the long run? please do educate me if not because im not against the idea.

i do have to run water to the barn though so if im going to dig a trench i could just use use the trench for the waste water to the house and the inbound water line to the barn i figured.

Post Reply

 Re: Water line and drainage
Author: bernabeu (SC)

Do the job right the FIRST time.

Plumb the barn just as if it were a house with 'standard' 4" DWV.

Place the ejector pit in the house's basement if elevation issue(s) require.


The TRENCHING is the major work.

[www.jlconline.com].

The water line needs to be below the frost line, so a dual service trench needs to be at LEAST 1 foot deeper.

Done.

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Post Reply

 Re: Water line and drainage
Author: packy (MA)

bern, the whole idea behind using a saniflo system is to eliminate any DWV larger than 1 1/2 inch. except for a 2 inch vent thru the roof.

the special back outlet toilet sets up against the tank inlet.

all sink piping can be designed once locations are determined.

geesh... we're not talking a whole house design here. he is simply adding a bathroom and a wet bar to an existing space.

Post Reply

 Re: Water line and drainage
Author: bernabeu (SC)

he has to trench 4-5' deep ANYWAY because of his location

he has to vent the 'saniflo' through the roof any way

we are talking a couple of bucks for extra material



? price of a local saniflo versus a 'remote' ejector ?


code REQUIRES gravity flow where possible

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Post Reply





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