Hello,

I need to solder a plumbing repair soon. I am an absolute beginner to soldering. I am planning to solder 1 Inch Type 'L' copper pipe to copper. This will be the pipe close to the house shut-off valve at outside hose bib. I have heard people says that solder with lead is more user friendly for beginners. But I thought lead was not allowed for pipes that carry drinking water.

I already have MAPP gas kit and 24 inch of copper pipe which will be more than enough. I'm just not sure which solder to get for this. And I realize I will need to practice plumbing soldering first.

[www.silfos.com]


SILVABRITE 100



how to solder:

[youtu.be]

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I just read reviews on that solder. It seems to be high quality. But expensive. So it looks like silver solder is the way to go. I'll look at the video you sent also and I'll practice next weekend.



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if the pipe you are working on is for an outside faucet, you can use lead solder.
its not drinking water.



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It's not just garden hose water. The water direction branches off to both garden hose bib and house. It's the pipe that enters through wall and supplies water for all the house from municipal water supply. So doesn't that count as drinking water?



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buy a small thing of plumbing solder. Even if you are feeding a hose for the garden, I drink from my garden hose all the time and fill up water jugs for the cottage. No telling what future owners may do. Use lead-free solder. A small roll will not break the bank.

Yeah. A small roll should do fine. I bought 2 couplings to practice on. Can I use those over and over again?



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yes, they can be reused

it will actually be good learning to unsolder, reclean, and reuse fittings

just use new fittings for the new work

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Heck......Who knows? Practicing soldering might even be fun.

I was watching instructional YouTube videos and doing some research last night, and I am uncertain of what solder material is best: 95/5, silver, nickel? Also, someone said lead-free soldering is MUCH more difficult. Is it really?

Use a silver bearing solder like the one bernabeu suggested. As easy to use as 50/50 without the health and legal issues.



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Ok. I might have to order the brand I want online.



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95/5 is excellent BUT is a 'bear' to work with - very small liquidus range

3-5% silver is easier than 50/50 to 'work' and is very 'forgiving' albeit $$$$$

50/50 is no longer code compliant



go with silvabrite or an equivalent: [www.homedepot.com]

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Silvabrite too expensive unless they sell it in smaller volume. I'll look around for the equivalent.

to repeat: [www.homedepot.com]


just click on the hyper-link

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I saw that. Is Oatey any good? It doesn't show the silver volume. You said under 5 percent is best.

That Oatey solder has 1-5% silver by weight, according to SDS sheet.

Ahh.....I see. You looked up the material safety data sheet.
I wish I thought of that. I think I'll use tinning flux instead with the Oatey solder.
I heard tinning flux can be helpful for beginners. Agree...disagree?

do what you want




sheeeez

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I have been doing copper pipe soldering for years as a DIY (landlord with buildings to take care of), but not as a professional plumber. If you are a pro like Bern, I am sure you know about the difference between solder types etc., but likely that's because they are so darn good at the basics of soldering, that they begin to notice the finer points, like solder composition. But I can tell you that as a beginner, far more important than solder types, is technique: details like keeping your surfaces very clean, getting paste everywhere you need it, and most importantly, making sure the entire joint is up to temperature when soldering so that the solder runs everywhere in the joint and adheres to the copper (and there are techniques to ensure this happens). These basics are far more important than the solder type. Get some plumbing solder - any kind will do. Then try soldering some joints, and watch some videos. I haven't seen any teaching videos - my father taught me the tricks - but I trust the other guys on this site to direct you to some decent teaching videos. If your technique is good, I would think you can solder with any plumbing solder (but perhaps I am wrong and the solder type makes a big difference? I can't imagine, but pros can correct me.)

In other words, a poor workman blames his tools. Don't be a poor workman.



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"a bear to work with", "very small liquidus range" - can you elaborate on what this means? I'm interested, as I've never actually paid any attention to solder composition other than "plumbing - no lead".

Point well taken, David. Thanks everyone.
I'll follow up later.



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a bear to work with = difficult (like trying to work with a bear)

liquidus = the temperature range for the solder to be 'pasty' between fully liquid and solid (the wider the range the easier to use)


95/5 about 30 deg

50/50 about 70 deg

silver bearing about 70

35/65 (wiping solder) about 110

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I am a DIYer but have been soldering for over 15 years on my own properties.

I have always used whatever solder available. Big boxes, plumbing supply stores etc...never any issue.

The flux I like NoCorrode. That seems to work better. I tried some different brands and didn't like them.

Soldering typical 1/2" or 3/4" joints is quite straight forward. Clean everything and you should be good to go.

I try to avoid soldering back to back to back to back joints, multiple successive tees like at a manifold, or a closed section like the cap at the end of the pipe with no practical nearby relief. Those can get tricky, or when you have a line that drips slowly because an upstream valve won't shut off 100%. Soldering a joint you cannot see is also very tricky.

Sum brings up an incredibly important point that was not mentioned before: drips and water. It is incredibly important that joints be dry and that there is no slow drip into the joint while soldering. This goes back to my point about temperature: water cools things instantly, even if only in a small area, preventing the solder from running and adhering.

See my point #4 here [www.plbg.com] for another tip on getting an entire joint up to temperature.



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"'pasty' between fully liquid and solid" - interesting, I am going to have to start paying attention to such details. Thanks.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I read the latest responses. I ordered some solder online which I should receive Monday.
I have everything else I need. Then I can start practicing after work next week



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I did some soldering practice today. I soldered one joint. I wanted to keep on going. But I cut not desolder the
coupling from the 1 inch copper pipe to practice on the same fitting. It was hard to get a grip with my Channel Lock pliers because I could not clamp pipe to hard in the vise for fear of crimping the pipe.

I may have applied to much heat from the MAPP torch too. It almost seemed like the flame was hardening the solder.
What is the procedure for desoldering for practicing purposes?

heating the joint until the solder melts

twisting while pulling

harder than soldering

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I think it is best to practice with 1/2" pipes and fittings first. Those are cheaper and you can buy a few more to practice with.

I find taking apart a joint needs more skill. The fitting's inside surface needs to be cleaned really well to get rid of the residual solder before you can seat it back on the pipe again.

If you must practice with a 1" and need to use a vise, don't apply too much pressure on the pipe to deform the pipe. You can just sit it on a few bricks/blocks, clean-flux-assemble the joint and go. You need the vise because you need to take it apart only?

My suggestion is to buy more 1/2" fittings and pipes and just practice with that, once you are comfortable go do it and don't worry about taking it apart and resoldering. Practice horizontal joints first then vertical joints.



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OK. I will pick up 1/2 inch pipe and fittings in the next couple days. It could cost more if I keep using new sections of pipe and new fittings for practice. But I get your point.....learn how to solder first. By the way, I am using Alpha Fry lead bearing solder and tinning flux.

When I do the actual repair, I will most likely need to desolder in two spots anyway. Isn't there a concern with chewing up pipes with the teeth from vice grips, Channel-Lock pliers or pipe wrench?

when the solder melts the joint should separate EASILY with only SLIGHT twist/pull using ordinary pliers

UNLESS

the original fit was a 'hammer together'



you need to practice with 50/50 and PLUMBING flux for the 50/50 NOT tinned flux

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Why would you need to desolder the joint? I guess I am not following.

There is no reason to deform the pipe/fitting, once the solder melts you should be able to rotate and back it out easily. No excess force needed.

I have heard of some plumbers purposely deform a fitting because they need the pipe to stay in a certain position while soldering, like when joining a vertical pipe from below with no support. They may insert a coupling and use a plier to slightly pinch it for it to stay put. I am not experienced enough to pull a stunt like that so if that happens to me I would find a way to support it while I do the work whether it may be a few bricks, or straps or whatever.

Just buy a 10-pack 1/2" coupling (cheaper than buying individual fittings) and a ten foot stick of pipe that you can cut in to pieces to practice.

Another possibility, are you struggling to remove the fitting from the pipe because you cut the pipe with a tubing cutter? If you did, the tubing cutter typically will create a bit of a flared end to the pipe, thus increasing the pipe OD a tiny bit, can be just enough to interfere. You need to debur the copper pipe after cutting it, inside (to reduce turbulence) and outside (to remove the flared end).

Do not overheat the torch, you may burn the flux.

I wanted to desolder the fitting, so I could remove and reuse it over and over for practice. But I can see now, that is not worth the trouble and it is better to just buy an economical bunch of fittings and length of pipe to practice. I didn't buy a deburring tool. I use different files gently without bearing down hard. And I use sanding cloth and wire brush.

I wiped off the excess flux and just left a light coating before soldering. Is this ok?



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I have never wiped off flux BEFORE soldering. I apply the flux inside the fitting and outside the pipe, not too much, assemble the joint then start heating the joint while testing with the tip of the solder. I wipe the joint right after with a dry rag.

If you reuse a previously soldered fitting to join to a previously soldered pipe, both male and female ends are already coated with solder, toe that is a different and more complicated task than soldering fresh pipe/fitting.

Ok. I'll make sure I don't apply too much flux then. I noticed hairs were coming off the flux brush and sticking to the flux. I didn't expect that. Kind of annoying.

Someone said don't use tinning flux. Why not? Multiple people were recommending it for beginners.

I guess there really isn't a way to test my practice joints for leaks?



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