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 compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: cessnat37

That blue-handled gate valve on the vertical section of pipe, is the main water shut-off valve for the house. I need to replace that. I had planned to use a full port ball valve with compression fittings at both ends. But someone said that might be hard to install as an inline valve. It was also suggested that I use a Shark Bite ball valve for this.

Is it true I would have trouble fitting in a 1 inch diameter compression X compression ball valve (with ferrules)?
Is Shark Bite a good option for a main water shut-off valve?

link to photo here:

[next.photobucket.com]

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 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: bernabeu (SC)

no pic

- - - -

Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
"Measure Twice & Cut Once"

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 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: cessnat37

The link did not work because the file sharing site I use, now requires a monthly paid account for embedding links on other websites. I'll look for another file sharing site.

This website does not allow posting pics directly in the postings.....correct?



Edited 2 times.

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: bernabeu (SC)

[www.plbg.com]

- - - -

Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
"Measure Twice & Cut Once"

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 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: packy (MA)

compression is way better than sharkbite.
install with the handle in the open position and tighten the lower joint first.
a dab of grease on the joints will help.

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: cessnat37

I think I better post a photo link first to make sure. This will be an inline ball valve and I might run into difficulties with fitment. What free file sharing site do you guys use?

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 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: packy (MA)

[postimages.org]

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: cessnat37

Ok.I'll check it out and I'll try to link a photo after work tonight

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: cessnat37

Ok.Here is the link to the photo. You can see that blue-handled valve on the vertical section of pipe is what I need to replace. That is the shut-off valve. So will a ball valve with compression fittings at both ends still work.

I see Shark Bite uses adjustable coupling. So I wonder if it would be easier to fit inline. But maybe less reliable.



Edited 4 times.

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: bernabeu (SC)

oops .... commented on wrong valve


sooooo ........



'chop out' the old valve with a sawz-all leaving the solder 'sockets' in place

unsolder and remove the old sockets

'dress' clean the pipe ends

install new solder valve using a union 'cut-in' as required

- - - -

Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
"Measure Twice & Cut Once"



Edited 2 times.

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 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: packy (MA)

you don't show us how much tubing above the broken valve.


but you can get a long pro press repair coupling and a propress ball valve and "press" everything into plsce.

then you will have a great, long lasting job.
couplint.... [conexbanninger.com]

propress tool rental.. hopefully one in your area..
[www.activeplumbing.com]


P/S.. don't be afraid of orppress.. it reakky is simple to use.



Edited 1 times.

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: cessnat37

Hmm.....I never heard of the press repair coupling method. I'll look into it. Thanks for the sweating suggestion also. I deleted the first photo. I just don't want to take up too much space on this website.

I'll upload another photo tonight after work.

As far as the Pro Press, It looks promising. But I can't spend that much for a tool I may never use again. But I will definitely look into renting.



Edited 3 times.

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 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: packy (MA)

post deleted by author



Edited 1 times.

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 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: cessnat37

Here is a better photo. Blue handle is the main water shut-off. The valve on the horizontal pipe is for drip/sprinkler(inoperative for years). And the garden hose bib is the green handle on top.

The Pro Press option won't work. Too expensive for purchase and rental. Is the ball valve with compression fittings at both ends, doable then based on this photo?


Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: bernabeu (SC)

yes, it is doable

BUT

you will still have unsoldering AND 'pipe end dressing' to remove ALL the solder residue so the compression will 'take'

THEREFOR

IMO it would be easier to merely resolder in a new valve

- - - -

Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
"Measure Twice & Cut Once"

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: packy (MA)

have the water shut at the street.
open the hose valve and remove the guts from the non working valve. this will help with draining everything down.
now comes the question of your soldering skills.
for someone with decent skills it is a less than 30 minute job.

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: sum (FL)

If you are not comfortable with soldering and a handheld propress tool is too expensive for a one off usage, then your options are reduced to either compression or those push in connections such as Sharkbites.

I personally would not use a SB but some do. I have seen SB connections blow apart, but do not know if that's bad install (not inserting correctly, not deburring etc...) or bad fittings, I do use it as a last resort hail mary temporary connection until a permanent connection can be made.

I believe compression connections can work but it will be several connections.

The problem with compression is for your configuration you have two obstacles (1) If you make two cuts on the vertical pipe you will have a hard time fitting the valve in between with full insertion depths and (2) the existing valve is just over the tee to the sprinkler line has limited pipe to make a connection and as Bernabeu said to get enough clean pipe you may have to unsolder the tee to get more room.

You said the sprinkler connection off that tee is inoperable for years, so do you still need it? If you are OK to delete it then this helps, make the cut just below the tee. Then make the second cut on the horizontal after the hose bibb tee. So basically, you are redoing everything in red in the picture below.



After cutting the pipes, deburr the cut ends, sand 2" or so of the pipe ends back to shiny copper. Then onto the vertical pipe a compression ball valve, a short section of pipe, then a brass compression tee, make the 90 degree turn, a short piece of copper, then a compression coupling to existing. The compression tee, I don't know if they make a COMPXCOMPXMIP tee, where you can use the two compression connections to make the turn to horizontal, and the MIP can be use to connection to a FIP hose bibb or garden valve, or a COMPXCOMPXCOMP tee and just use a short piece of copper and a compression MIP or FIP adapter. You can premade the entire contraption with careful measurements and just make the final connections at the tee at the same time. I think that should work and will allow you to take it apart in the future should you want to add back the sprinkler line later.

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 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: cessnat37

Yes Friends,

The fitment/insertion issue Sum speaks of, is exactly what I have been concerned with. So Sum is saying it might be easier to make the complete assembly first and then fit it in. I do all my own plumbing repairs now. But I have never soldered pipes.

The insertion part is problematic whether I sweat pipes or use compression fittings....correct?

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: bernabeu (SC)

Quote

The insertion part is problematic whether I sweat pipes or use compression fittings....correct?




yes, correct

BUT

in this case, there is more than enough 'play' and 'give' for either installation

- - - -

Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
"Measure Twice & Cut Once"

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: sum (FL)

If you go with compression, and replace the all the way to the horizontal, like Bernabeu said there is enough play. You can build the compression piece by piece, without tightening, and there should be enough play to get it all completed, or you can pre-assemble the whole contraption and make the two final connections.

If you do soldering, you can leave the irrigation tee alone. Cut the lower part of the existing valve at the cup, leaving the cup on the vertical cut, then hold the new ball valve against the pipe to make the upper cut, to ensure the gap is exactly the length of the new valve. Then unsolder the lower cup to gain some pipe back, then use two copper couplings with NO STOP, which allows you to slide the coupling completely out of the way, then slide them back half way on the valve, and clean/flux/solder.

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: cessnat37

Interesting. Thanks guys!

This contraption will look like a work of art when I'm done. I read your detailed explanations very carefully. I need to give some thought about what hardware and method I want to use. What does the term 'cup' mean?

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 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: bernabeu (SC)

'cup' is a general term which can mean:


the bell in bell and spigot

the recess in the fitting into which a pipe or tube is inserted or threaded

the container from which coffee in imbibed



on a more serious note: [youtu.be]

- - - -

Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
"Measure Twice & Cut Once"

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: cessnat37

Haa.........I had to look at a diagram of 'recess' as it applies to plumbing. I understand.

It might be time for me to learn and practice sweating pipes.

Post Reply

 Re: compression fitting or shark bite to replace main shut-off valve?
Author: bernabeu (SC)

learn here: [youtu.be]


watch the entire video

- - - -

Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
"Measure Twice & Cut Once"

Post Reply





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