We bought a house with a new sewer lateral. There is an abandoned basement floor drain with a clean out in this 1930 home. The basement floor drain is capped with a threaded plug. The drain line is a clay pipe. This drain tied into the sewer main. All the visible drains are attached to the new sewer lateral. Water backs up out of the cleanout after heavy rain events presumably due to water intrusion underground in the failed pipe. The line has a near 100% blockage about 20' down. I initially plugged the cleanout with a neoprene plug. This worked for several months but the plug has started to leak. We need a permanent solution. A couple of questions about the right way to "retire" an old sewer drain line like this:

* is sealing the clean out with hydraulic cement the correct way to do this?

* there is a water heater nearby with no drain pan. I'm curious about code requirements for water heaters in basements with no drain. I suppose the installer put the water heater in prior to the new sewer lateral being installed, ie there was a working floor drain when they installed it. So now that's its abandoned/blocked, I assume that I also need to install a pan in addition to permanently sealing the clean out, right or wrong?

Also, one other detail. The there has been no water coming into the basement in the 8 months we've lived here other than through this cleanout. So the floor drain appears to truly abandoned in place with no real purpose.

Thanks in advance for the help.

I would stuff a rag in the pipe and dump hydraulic cement into the pipe after verifying it is a dead line which you may need a professional for

You MUST tie the pre-existing CODE REQUIRED floor drain into the NEW sewer lateral.

This SHOULD have been done when the new lateral was installed.

The old piping may THEN be abandonned in place AFTER it is disconnected at BOTH ends.


Dead ends over 24" are PROHIBITTED ........... period end of case.

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

If the floor drain is not connected to the new sewer it is not a dead end, although I agree the area should be jackhammered up around the drain, the stub up and trap cut out then re cement the area

There is no issue with dumping hydraulic cement down the existing pipe

However, the floor drain ITSELF, or a floor drain is required ................. !


This is a basement with mechanical equipment and SRV(s) .................. !

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Quote

* there is a water heater nearby with no drain pan. I'm curious about code requirements for water heaters in basements with no drain. I suppose the installer put the water heater in prior to the new sewer lateral being installed, ie there was a working floor drain when they installed it. So now that's its abandoned/blocked, I assume that I also need to install a pan in addition to permanently sealing the clean out, right or wrong?

There MUST be a working floor drain to handle the discharge of the T-PRV.

A pan is NFG as you will need a place to discharge any liquid which leaks into the pan.

If you had a garage installation said T-PRV and or pan could be piped gravity flow to the outside

BUT

in a basement you are REQUIRED to have EITHER:

floor drain

or

sump pit and pump with emergency back-up battery power.

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

When is a floor drain a requirement? Have had several homes on Long Island and elsewhere where permitted work was done to basement mechanicals and inspector NEVER mentioned anything about a floor drain. Our house in Louisville and the one now has a/c in the basement and a floor drain is needed to handle the condensate, is that the determining factor?

ONE determining factor.

The piping from the Temperature-Pressure Relief Valve on the water heater is the MAIN factor.

The piping from the PRV on a boiler is a MAIN factor

The discharge from a 'full bore' discharge in a 'worst case' scenario MUST have a place to go.

Said discharge must be by gravity DOWNWARDS and via an air gap above the discharge 'receptacle' whether trapped funnel drain or the floor itself.


[www.nachi.org]

It is critical that discharge pipes meet the following requirements, which can be found in InterNACHI’s Water Heater Discharge Piping mini-course, at www.nachi.org/education. A discharge pipe should:
be constructed of an approved material, such as CPVC, copper, polyethylene, galvanized steel, polypropylene, or stainless steel. PVC and other non-approved plastics should not be used since they can easily melt.
not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the valve it serves (usually no smaller than 3/4".
not reduce in size from the valve to the air gap (point of discharge).
be as short and as straight as possible so as to avoid undue stress on the valve.
be installed so as to drain by flow of gravity.
not be trapped, since standing water may become contaminated and backflow into the potable water.
discharge to a floor drain, to an indirect waste receptor, or to the outdoors.
not be directly connected to the drainage system to prevent backflow of potentially contaminating the potable water.
discharge through a visible air gap in the same room as the water-heating appliance.
be first piped to an indirect waste receptor such as a bucket through an air gap located in a heated area when discharging to the outdoors in areas subject to freezing, since freezing water could block the pipe.
not terminate more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor or waste receptor.
discharge in a manner that could not cause scalding.
discharge in a manner that could not cause structural or property damage.
discharge to a termination point that is readily observable by occupants, because discharge indicates that something is wrong, and to prevent unobserved termination capping.
be piped independently of other equipment drains, water heater pans, or relief valve discharge piping to the point of discharge.
not have valves anywhere.
not have tee fittings.
not have a threaded connection at the end of the pipe so as to avoid capping.

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



Edited 1 times.

ps. there are OTHER codes which 'go with' the actual plumbing code

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

My point is that homes with basement boilers and/or HW heaters that have such relief valves and were built without floor drains must be grandfathered and allowed to not have them installed? Maybe same applies to OP here?

Two homes, built in 1916 and 1973, both had boilers with relief valves, neither had floor drains, and when new boiler installations were inspected, both passed without floor drains.

Not disagreeing that it's certainly a good idea to have one, only that OP may be able to avoid re-connecting his.

Quote

..... and when new boiler installations were inspected, both passed without floor drains. .....

Unfortunately 'passing inspection' sometimes does NOT ensure code compliance, merely a 'pass'.

In the OP's case there WAS a working floor drain which was not REconnected.




..... 'nuf said

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

This can be complicated. Inspections, code compliance and safety are often related but not necessarily.

If a floor drain was not needed in 1940, and a floor drain was deemed necessary in 1970 when the code changed, they are both legal installation.

The installation in 1970 with the floor drain was code compliant in 1970.

The installation in 1940 without the floor drain no longer meet code after 1970 no longer meet code, thus is becomes LEGAL AND NON-CONFORMING, aka grandfathered in.

Depending on the locale, sometimes floor drains if the purpose was for boiler discharges they allow that flow to be discharged into a drywall outside instead of connecting to the building main drains.

Code is supposed to be safety first and foremost, but in many cases it is not. Down here where we are the fence code is to the point it is laughable. Now obviously, if you have a pool in your property, the Florida swimming pool code says you have to have a fence that is not climmable by kids and must be at least 48" tall, but the local historical preservation decided that they want a 1940s period look and ban street facing fences to be no more than 36" high, it trumps safety, imagine that. In the old days, two neighbors working together agree on a common fence between the property, they both chip in time and money to build one along the property line. But no, now a days people don't talk to each other anymore, and the city is sick of not knowing who owns a fence when it's right on the property line, so it changed the code, must build fence set back at least 4" so your fence is on your property. We now see two fences, running down the middle, each 4" inside their respective property. You have yours and I have mine. Crazy, resulting in an 8" strip of nothing in between that no one can maintain or reach. Leaves get trapped in there. Then neighbors still get mad at each other, your fence is 4" into your property, don't you dare walk over to my side, using my space to paint, repair, pressure wash my side of your fence!!! So the city says, you should build a new fence from now on set back 18" from the property line to allow space to maintain and mow your fence without trespassing onto your neighbors. Then the neighbor decided to plant things between their property line and your fence that is 18" in. Now the plant is in your space but on their side of the fence. Can they do that? It's NOT their space but no permit needed to plant a shrub. I have seen a 50' long fence set 4" in, and the owner had a tree branch fall on one section, to make repairs the city said, repair it, but set it back 18" because it's new code. So that fence runs 4" in but that 10' of repaired fence is 18" in. You just can't make this crap up, the mess the code people created trying to "help" regulate neighbors who can't get along, and safety does not come into play here.