I special ordered a copper manifold for my PEX repipe.



This one is SUPPOSED to be a 1" trunk with 3/4" ports. It comes in a 6 foot long piece where I can cut into smaller segments for the cold and hot sides.

The reason I want a 1X3/4 is because my incoming feed is 3/4" from the meter, then it feeds into this 1" trunk with 3/4" ports.

However, the company incorrectly shipped me a 1-1/4" trunk with 3/4" ports. I called and told them it was the wrong item...and they said just go from 3/4 to 1-1/4 instead of 1 and the performance will be the same.

Will it be the same?

Should I live with this 1-1/4"X3/4" version or should I insist they exchange it to what I actually ordered? I was invoiced and charged the 1X3/4 but was shipped the 1-1/4X3/4.

It also arrived damaged, I think something heavy hit it and bent the last 18" of it. UPS's fault, although it is not a big deal since I only need to use 14 ports and there are 12 ports I have to "waste".



Edited 1 times.

The size difference should not matter you were already going from smaller to larger

ditto

this time the error was in your favor

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

yes I was already going from 3/4 to 1.

my reasoning was (1) they do not sell a manifold that is 3/4 in with 3/4 ports. So I went with a 1" trunk with 3/4" ports, and (2) if one day I change the line from meter to house I will change it to 1" and I will have better volume even though I have no plan to do it at this time.

so now the trunk is 1-1/4". I know it doesn't change the pressure as pressure is pressure. Will the increased trunk have any impact on anything, if any?

As far as implementation, I do have to change out all the standoff brackets and straps I have that are 1" to 1-1/4" sizes, and where I need to connect between 3/4X1 I have to use two adapters one 3/4X1 and one 1X1-1/4 and back like to the water heater etc...

Your supplier does not have 1 1/4 x 3/4 connectors? Get a different supplier

"Will the increased trunk have any impact on anything, if any?'

Having a 1 1/4" trunk instead of a 1" trunk won't affect anything other than needing different size adapters, hangers, and so on. 1 1/4" is not a bad thing.

I'm with bernabeu ... the mistake is in your favor.

why is it "in my favor"? is the 1-1/4" trunk actually better than a 1"?

Technically it holds more volume but does recover as quickly as a manifold of a smaller diameter?

Sum,

Since it is being fed by a smaller sized pipe to me it is "in your favor" by maybe a fraction of a tiny percentage.

It is "in your favor" because it is more expensive but you did not have to pay more, period. There is no other significant benefit, or detraction, either way.

I agree with hj. No "significant" difference.

So I ordered another manifold and thanks to UPS they destroyed the item. It is a 6' long manifold and they dropped it on something and the whole thing was bent by about 30 degrees may be more.



Good news is I don't need the whole thing only about 12 ports so I will find a straight section to cut.

Also thanks to UPS, 30% or more of the branches are out of round.



I don't think these are soft copper, can I re-round them, I have a swagging tool that looks like an elongated step bit can I use that?

send it back


get a refund


order one through a 'supply house'


let them deal with the shipping issues


the one begining with "Fe" has many branches in Florida

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

it is close to impossible to find such product in my state. Believe me I tried.

now if I want to use those "regular" PEX manifolds, they are available for purchase online or locally. But I want plain straight copper manifold 1X3/4 or 1X1/2 that I can solder on valves myself this is not available in FL.

I tried various online places, no such luck.

I tried all the local plumbing supply houses, and they said "what? what is that?"

There are only a few manufacturers that make these, one is called ALBERTA CUSTOM TEE in Canada and another one called PRECISION HYDRONICS.

Oh Sioux Chief makes them too, but I called two months ago to request a spec sheet and they said their custom manifold division has shut down temporarily. There is another brand called BlueFin that I found but reading their reviews everyone said the branches are not pointing in the same direction and some branches you have to pound the coupling on with a mallet (now that I think about this, I think I know why). I have called ALBERTA CUSTOM TEE and asked for their distributor list, and they have a few distributors in the NE states, and I have called three of them and asked them if they will ship to me direct or recommend a reseller that will ship to me in FL, all dead ends.

The obvious place to call is the place you mentioned starting with FE. I have an account with them actually. The ALBERTA CUSTOM TEE product is available on their web site, but no price, had to "CALL FOR PRICING". When I do call, they took my info and product #, and they told me there is no "regional rep" in the southern region GA/FL so they cannot get it. I have to call FE places in the north to get it locations with a relationship with a rep that resells that, now can they do the order for me, and have it shipped down to FL and I go pick it up? NO, I need to call FE locations in the north. Where? Hmmm...anywhere north where they have reps. So that took me on a path to call FE locations in Michigan, New York, Connecticut. Now get this, even though the product is listed on their web site, none of them have HEARD OF IT. They said they cannot sell it to me, because I am "out of jurisdiction" and they can't even see my account from their computers. One of them suggested I call a local plumbing supp;y store in Hicksville and see if they will ship to me, and I called and they said no can't ship.

Now eventually I was able to connect with a FE location in Colorado who is willing to sell one to me and ship it using a "CASH ACCOUNT". So this is what I got. I don't want to return it again because the gentleman there went out of his way to do this for me.

These products are simply not used in southern states because they are used for radiant heating and not so much supply manifolds.

The problem is they come in 6' sticks. So shipping in a skinny 6' box is going to be at the mercy of the UPS driver/handler.

The good news is I don't need 6'. I only need a 10 port for cold and a 6 port for hot, so if I can salvage two straight sections of 10 & 6 I am good to go, but some ports on the straight section are not round so I need to fix this.

I now looked back on reviews about people saying the branches are not facing same direction or have to use a mallet to pound couplings on...this is not because of the product, this is because UPS or USPS or FEDEX mutilated them during transit.

At this point I would rather just fix what I have instead of trying to get another brand or another product and go on a wild goose chase again.

each tool is for a specific tubing size

smaller end merely 'rounds' the tubing - 'deadfall' mallet recomended for use

larger 'step' is for swaging the tube into a female socket (tube must be annealed first)



good luck

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

If I need to round a tubing, with such a tool, does it mean such tool needs to match the type of the copper?

I mean if this tool is to round type M, and I used it to round a type L, then the type L tubing OD will be expanded so that a coupling will not fit on anymore right?

So I am guessing since these are for soft tubing it's safe to assume these for for type L.

I hope the manifold I got is type L. I can't tell if it's hard or soft. It looks hard but I was told these branches are brazed on by machines. Is brazing only for soft copper?

brazing is for 'hard' or 'soft' copper

the area which was brazed will be PARTIALLY annealed (softened) but, since it was not quenched, not fully annealed


try playing with a scrap of copper tube - heat it to a dull red then dip it in a bucket of water - voila, the red heated area is now fully annealed - heat another similar piece to a similar dull red color but let it cool naturally .... now you know the difference



to answer your question re: wall thickness ~ unless marked differently, tool is for 'L' tube


ps. 'soft shell' refrigeration grade tubing is generally "L" tube albeit the big box stores only sell it in "M"


pps. "M" may meet code, but "L" is good practice and SPECIFIED by competant architects and engineers

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



Edited 1 times.

I was able to straighten out the bent in the manifold by using two pieces of 2x4s. It unbent quite easily so may be it's soft tubing.

or it has been annealed by the hi temp required by brazing



barring any color change due to being done 'in the field' there is NO difference between 'soft shell' from the factory and field annealed copper (except the color)



(field) annealling is simply the process to change the 'temper' from 'factory hard' to soft

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I have an Imperial swagging tool that looks like an elongated step bit but it goes up to 5/8" and I need 3/4 and 1.

The problem with many rounding tools out there they are for refrigeration tubing. I think their sizes are different. 3/4" AC tubing is different from 3/4 plumbing tubing right?

the tubing is exactly the same


refrigeration is 'called' by the OD - type M,L,K does not affect the 'call'

plumbing is 'called' by 'nominal' ID - type M,L,K will affect the ACTUAL ID but NOT the OD or the 'called' size



soooo........ 3/4 (nominal) plumbing size is 7/8 refrigeration REGARDLESS of M,L,K type


soooo........5/8 refrigeration is 1/2 (nominal) plumbing


THE TUBING IS EXACTLY THE SAME except that 'refrigeration grade' is nitrogen filled and capped at the ends

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

That's what I mean, if AC tubing and plumbing tubing are "CALLED" differently, then there is a difference.

If I go to buy a tubing rounding tool that says "3/4 inch rounding tool for AC tubing", then I know it will be too small to round a 3/4 plumbing tubing. Problem is most rounding tools are for AC tubing, not plumbing (nominal tubing). Unless I go buy 7/8 AC tubing rounding tool for the 3/4 nominal pipe.

Quote

Unless I go buy 7/8 AC tubing rounding tool for the 3/4 nominal pipe.

EXACTLY

the tools will measure identical ie. 7/8 AC = 3/4 nominal (both are 7/8 OD)

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

it is more complicated than that, since we are talking about re-rounding a pipe then the ID comes into play.

I noticed they sell "copper sizing tool" which is to re-round an out of round pipe and it's based on nominal diameter. They also sell a "swagging tool" which from my reading the description is to actually ROUND AND EXPAND a pipe to give it a hub, then I assume this is for brazing two pipes, you expand one end then insert the other end into it then the brazing.

So what I am looking for is a copper sizing tool. I saw a Pasco 4344 3/4" Copper Sizing Tool, that is for type M copper tubing. So I need to confirm what I have is type M or L, because if I use that on type L it will end up expanding it to the point a coupling will not fit over it. The only way to make sure is to find out the actual diameter of the sizing tool, and match that up with the ID of the tubing I intend to round it with.

you get the principle exactly


assuming your manifold is nominal 3/4" "L" tube you will need a 3/4 nominal or 7/8 AC ROUNDING tool for "L" tube



if you find one for "K" tube go ahead and use it - it will insert much easier and you can tap around on the outside of the copper with a light (preferably brass) hammer as necessary

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638