A couple of questions before I place the order for the copper header to be used for my manifolds.

The copper headers I am getting is manufactured by a Canadian company called ALBERTA CUSTOM TEE. This is a picture of what I will be getting.



[1] The branches will be 3/4" copper outlets. The header itself can be requested in 3/4", 1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2" or even larger. Since my supply from the meter is 3/4", I think I should get a 1" header? Is there any advantage in getting a bigger one then 1"?

[2] They told me the branches are NOT soldered to the header, they are brazed at 1300 degrees. Because of this process, the outlet branches are going to be annealed and behaves closer to a soft copper tubing. For this reason they recommend soldering to connect to it (which is what I plan to do anyways), they cautioned against using PROPRESS on it. They said if I connect with PROPRESS, it may work, but it may feel loose if it doesn't leak. So does this mean PROPRESS may not be a good idea if used with soft copper tubing?

[3] I will be getting a bunch of 3/4" and 1/2" ball valves to connect to this header. What is a good ball valve to use? I see some valves have a drain bleeder on it, are those useful?

If it were my home I would solder on male adapters using 'silverbrite' solder.

Said adapters could be soldered 'all at once' in the open at a convenient location, a/k/a: 'on the bench'.

Then I would use NPT X PEX ball valves.

The valves can be screwed on with the handles 'perpendicular' to the header and opening 'inline' pointed away.



As for 'stop and waste' type - only useful if they would actually drain the piping - ? you will be running the PEX over-under-around-and through ?

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

bernabeu,

my plan is to solder on 3/4" full port ball valves, then a short piece of copper pipe, then a PEX adapter to connect to the PEX. If the outlet is to be 1/2" then I will solder on a 3/4x1/2 reducer, then a 1/2" ball valve, then a short piece of copper pipe, then PEX adapter.

What is the advantage of soldering on male adapters first? I worry about connecting a ball valve to male adapters because when I tighten the ball valves it may end up in the position where the handle is facing the back instead of facing the front.

serviceability 'in place' is the MAJOR advantage

use QUALITY 'yellow' tape rated for gas service (thicker) with an extra wrap or two - do NOT overtighten - if the adapters are properly cast/threaded 2-3 threads WILL be exposed


tightening threads is a major skillset which you can learn


you will be installing the valves 'on the bench' - go for it


REMEMBER - one full turn is merely ONE thread - so, lining them up is not really that hard - 'aim' for perfect, settle for good 'nuf

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



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sum, if you want to go with threaded valves then you can always screw the adapter into the valve very tightly.
tnen wrap a damp cloth around the threads and solder in any position you want.

the valves with little drain bittons are not a good idea.
you cand put a hose valve on the end of the manifold.
if you want to shut and drain one section, close all other valves and open the drain.
when the open circuit has drained, close that valve, close the drain and open all other circuits.

webstone makes decent valves.

? tighten it until it leaks ?

NPT is a wedging action

too tight = leak and/or cracked fitting



the 'ending' threads are IMPERFECT and will only act to wedge open the fitting and thereby BREAK the seal



.............. SHEEEEEEZ


vic, please 'soften' this post as you see fit

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

the issue is not doing ONE valve. The issue is doing eight valves that are only 2-3 inches apart from each other with the branches being annealed from the brazing so they may be not as stiff as hard copper.

If I solder on a male adapter, then thread on a valve after, first of all I don't even know I can thread them on without the handles interferring with the adjacent ones, I may need to remove all the handles first, then once they are tight, then I need to further turn them to align the handles. The handles need to be a certain way in order for it to be in a closed position and not hit the valve to it's left or right, and the handle can't be facing away towards the wall, so in that sense it's like installing a shower arm or a tub spout, they need to settle on a specific position, like 12 'O' clock. If it feels tight at 2 'O' clock, I have to force another 280 degrees to get it to where it needs to be. Don't know if that will stress out the joint.

What about using compression joints? Solder short pieces of copper to the ball valves, connect to the branches with brass compression couplings, or use valves with compression connections? Can be taken apart as long as one doesn't tighten to the point of strangling the pipe.



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Packy, if I pre-connect the male adapters onto the valves, then do the soldering, I can see how that will allow me to align it however I want, but will the heat from the soldering end up "burning" the thread sealant whether it is pipe dope or tape that is so close, I am comfortable soldering but when you say wrap a damp cloth that joint is only going to be an inch away.

Question for the pros: is there an advantage to ordering a custom manifold like vs just soldering up your own from copper fittings and short lengths of pipe? I get that the ones you buy off the shelf save installation time, but in this case the cost of a custom piece plus shipping time from Canada?

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Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer



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....... juuuuuuust perhaps THIS is the time for Sharkbite ????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!**************??????????????


gasp...choke...gurgle...........................................

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

sum, i can't tell you how many things i have soldered to made up male adapters.
never ever had a problem.

as i said wrap a damp piece of clothe around the threaded joint and solder away.

sum. being that the stubs are annealed you could make a flare joint.
just slide a 3/4 flare nut onto the stub and flare the end of the copper.
[www.mscdirect.com]

LI Guy, with the compact spacing these branches are to be arranged, if you use regular fittings I think the short pipe between the tees will need to be cut so it will be 2X the fitting depth. In that case you are talking about back to back soldering of multiple fittings in one sitting. I am pretty comfortable with soldering by now, a normal coupling (2 joints) or a tee (3 joints) not an issue. I get a little nervous when I have to do say three fittings with 5 joints at the same time, like a tee followed by a street 90 then a street 45. So if I do a header like this with ten branches, I will need to solder 20 joints at the same time because as you heat up one fitting the next one is too close so it will get the heat too. I don't think you want to solder two branches of a tee and leave the other one alone to do another section ten minutes later, it will have to be all fluxed and assembled and soldered in one sitting. If I then make a mistake it cannot be easily unsoldered because if I apply heat to one branch of one tee the adjacent branches and solder will be heated and undone too. If it's ten tees 6" apart I think I will feel much more comfortable but if back to back I think I will likely struggle.

"you cand put a hose valve on the end of the manifold."

Understood. I plan to have a few spare outlets anyway, so instead of soldering on a cap I solder on a ball valve or a bibb to make it a drain. Perfect!

As for flared joints, I will look into it. I remember one time I did try to do a flared joint (underground) and I gave up, don't remember why, I think it has to do with the existing soft copper that I was trying to connect to was curving up and a bit out of round, and I couldn't find even a short section that is straight.



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Sum, it's not as hard as it sounds...just make sure you have enough solder on the roll and enough gas in the tank and just keep going. I've done similar assemblies like this bypass I built for the whole house sediment filter. If I have any issue with the filter housing, I can bypass the filter until I get the problem resolved. Also, changing the cartridge is easy, all you do is shut off the two valves to isolate the filter, and open the bypass so water service is not interrupted while the filter is offline. I also included unions to make it easy to change the filter housing if needed.



On this, there is a union and shut off on each side of the filter, plus a bypass leg with another shutoff. Once I had everything measured out, I took it all apart and bench-made the two assemblies that go into the filter, each was half of a union, a short length of pipe and a male adapter.

Then with the filter removed, I fluxed and re-assembled the rest into position and soldered it all in one go. I counted 22 joints altogether. The hardest thing to do is solder half of a tee, it's easier to keep it going.




I tend to use more solder than I need to so my technique leaves something to be desired, but rarely if ever do my joints leak.

This filter was originally installed by the plumber that put in our new combi boiler with tankless HW heater. First cartridge change, I tore the O-ring because there was no lube on it...then it dawned on me that the whole house was without water while I drove around town like a maniac on a Sat afternoon trying to find a replacement O-ring. Seemed like an unnecessary point of failure, so I rigged up this bypass to isolate the filter in event of future problems.

I changed the filter quarterly so the stale water in the bypass leg gets flushed out.

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Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer



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LI Guy, I have done these connections like your pictures. No problem with those because I don't see any back to back fittings. When I say back to back, I mean there is no visible pipe. Like when you insert three street elbows into each of the three branches of a tee, then into each elbow a piece of pipe. In that case you are soldering all six joints at the same time.

In the case of a manifold, if you are ok with each branch being say 6" apart, fine. There will be a short piece of pipe in between and the soldering is simple. Now if you want as tight a spacing as possible, then you cut the pipe to 2x fitting depth, so that when you insert the pipes into the fittings you see no pipe only fittings against each other. I have done a few of those on rare occasions but I have not done one with say ten back to back. As I heat up tee #3 I will be heating up the joints for tee #2 and tee #4 at the same time. To do all those in one sitting is a challenge for me. I would not even be able to wipe the joints as I do it because touching one tee and causing it to rotate 5 degrees while soldering that whole thing would be a disaster.

sum, just use your channel locks and squeze the solder joint (very gently) it will knock the joint out of round ever so slightly.
BUT as long as the fitting and tubing are both out of round equally it will solder fine and it won't rotate when wiped.