I have a question regarding bending and offsetting PEX-A tubing.

I have seen these 90 degree support elbow, where it turns from horizontal to vertical or vice versa.



However in my case, since I need to make several long runs through a low headroom crawlspace with obstructions along the way, I am trying to figure out ahead of time the path I need to make to get from point A to point B. I went into the crawlspace last week to do a recon and I found a few potential issues.

I need to run several tubing from where the main enters the crawlspace all the way to the garage on the other side of the house, the manifolds will be in the garage. Along the way it needs to go past three concrete foundation wall. These are 8" thick concrete block walls about 18" or so high off the crawlspace dirt, then the 2X10 floor joists over that.

So I will run into two walls where the floor joists will be on each side of the concrete wall. These joists are spaced 16" apart, and the PEX needs to go under the floor joists then go above the concrete wall, then bends back down to clear the joist on the other side. Here is a sketch to make this easier to see. The red color line is the PEX tube. Can it be bent and offset like this easily or will it kink? Do I need to do something to have the pipe stand off the top of the concrete wall? I assume expand/contract will cause the pipe to keep rubbing the concrete? I am planning on using talons attached to the bottom of the floor joists but not sure what I need to do with the concrete wall.



There is another concrete wall I need to pass three tubings, two 3/4" and one 1/2". There is an existing rectangular hole 3" wide by 8" tall I can use for passage.



So if I get to this point, and I feed the tubing through, then I move to the other side of the wall under the crawl, as I drag the tubing through, do I need to do something to the rough edges of the hole to protect the tubing from getting damaged from being dragged through this hole? Or I need to hire a helper to stay at this hole to nudge the tubing forward?

you 'sleeve' the concrete 'hole', the edges of the sleeve being 'rounded' and smooth

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

sum, they a lot of different vatieties of pex sleeves.
for te big hole you can stick a hunk of 2 inch pve and feed your lines thru it'
for going over the sharp cornered wall use a more flexible sleeve.

Packy, I will plan on using the sleeves.

However, my question is more about what I actually would do while I run the pipe through the crawlspace the first time.

To go through that big hole, like you said, may be I can cut a section of 2" pipe, and really smooth the inside to a bevel on the cut ends, then put it across the hole, but when I feed the tubing through and drag it forward, the 2" pipe will move with it. I can work around that, I can bring with me a bunch of wood shims into the crawl, and once i put in the 2" pipe, I drive shims/wedges on the outside to wedge it tight with the hole, then I can pull the tubing forward, allowing the tubing behind me to slid through the pipe sleeve without being damaged.

Now onto the flexible sleeve, let's say I am running this tubing through an upside down "U", below the joists, over a block wall, back to below the joist, I will be dragging the tubing along as I pull on the far end, with a second person uncoiling the tubing at the entrance as I pull. This is where I see the issue. Yes I can cut a piece of flexible sleeve 3' long to protect the tubing, but as soon as I drag the tubing forward, the sleeve will follow the tubing forward, and the rear section of the tubing will be exposed to the top of the rough wall again. The only ways I can think of getting around this are:

(1) I have someone stay at this wall, and as I drag the tubing forward, this person slides the flexible sleeve back to stay over the wall. If I have two walls to pass like this, I need two extra bodies to slide the sleeves.

(2) or I drag the tubing forward for a few feet, come back to adjust the sleeve back into place, go back to drag the tubing forward more, crawl back to slide the sleeve again, and keep doing this back and forth back and forth until I get to the end. I cannot just keep feeding the tubing forward by staying at the wall, as I think the tubing will tend to coil, and I also need to guide the tubing correctly with lots of electrical wiring, AC ducts, old pipes (some abandoned some active) criss crossing in the crawl and if I want the PEX to be secured at the bottom of the joists they have to be guided forward carefully.

Another question is how secured are these talons? Specifically the ones that will take 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 tubings? Can they be used to secure the path of the tubing if they are bent a little to do a U shaped double offset or will they come off?

sum, real plumbers don't use the combi talon clips.

as for getting over the cement wall.. can you lay a piece of plexiglass on the cement?

i would think even a piece of smoke pipe layed ovet the cement with the round parts facing up will give you a smoothe surface to drag the pex over.

Sum, how about ripping a 3" or 4" plastic pipe segment into 4 pieces(quartered lengthwise) and gluing them to the top corners of the concrete with expanding foam?

packy I thought those one size fits all talons are convenient so I ordered a pack of 100. If they are not that good I can get others. I need something that is secured and works, as the cost/effort of getting into the attic a second time to secure the tubing out weights any savings by getting cheaper talons. I got those just thinking they are more convenient since I don't have to carry two sizes with me into the crawl.

I just read the reviews on these and I am more confused. Some said the 3/4" tubing will pop out of the talon when pressurized. Some said the correct use of the talon for 3/4" is to cut off the inner plastic piece while others said no don't do that. I think I will buy something else. Any suggestions?

steve, expanding foam...OK what if I just spray the top of the concrete wall with a wide area of expanding foam to give the tubing a cushion when I pull them? When it's all done I can go back in and put on sleeves, I am sure there are split sleeves I can put on the tubing once they are in place? Think this will work?

sum, do you see the flat part of this talon?
i isolates the pex from the surface the talon is attached to.
it give it a plastic surface to expand and contract against.
carrying two size talons is not a big deal.

sum,

cut 2 pieces of 2-1/2, chamfer/bevel/ream the inside edges, use the expanding foam to 'set/lock' them in place

viola - permanent sleeves

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Packy I will get the two size talons.

Are there different talons for different situations? I will be running the PEX across the joists bottom (not along side), and I am in a very low headroom crawl. I assume this talon means you will need to hammer up to attach the talon to the bottom of the joists. I wonder if they make talons to allow attachment to the side (close to the bottom edge) while the actual "ring" is below the joists. Will something like this work just as good?



I am trying to avoid hammering up because it will be back breaking in the crawl and last time I tried hammering up in there dust/debris dropped down into my eyes.

But I don't know if these clamps will pinch the PEX too much if the story I hear is true that the PEX expands/contract so much that when it pressurizes it needs a lot of movement.



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