When I hired my Contractor to do the kitchen I told him that other contractors said the drain was too high in this old house. His response was don't worry everything is fine. I reminded him before the drywall went up and before the cabinets and countertops and deep sink with the same response. Still he looks under the sink and says no problem.

So now the distance between the bottom of the sink and the center of the drain in the wall is 3". If I just forget the garbage disposal is there even enough room to install a Y tail piece for dishwasher and P-trap.

Any other options?

Thanks!

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you will need a very shallow sink drain.


getting the dishwasher drain fitting in there will be tricky.

tell your plumber he will need a "direct connect" DW tailpiece. a metal one will be more compact than a plastic one.



all in all i think your chances are pretty good.

Wait....which is 3" higher, the bottom of the sink or the center line of the drain? If the drain is higher than the sink it will never empty. If the sink is 3" higher, then Packy is right, the plumber will figure it out.

- - - - - - -

Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

So now you can't use a disposer. What did the contractor say? Still "don't worry we can drain it uphill?"

The contractor should cut out the back of the cabinet, have a licensed plumber make the drain right, and install a new back panel. You shouldn't suffer because he didn't do his job right.

With the undermount sinks (farmers sinks too) all the rage you have to rough 12" off the floor to meet the ultra-deep sinks you see today. 8" is more than enough to make a connecting to all sinks with disposals.

He installed new hot and cold stub outs not sure why he didn’t lower the drain I agree the drain needs to be lowered to accommodate the intended garbage disposal, call a plumber to lower the drain and deduct that bill from your final payment to your contractor…after discussing it with him first

i suspect that if it was an easy job to have lowered the drain when the wall was open, it would have been done at that time ???

The contractor told him not to worry twice, now he is being forced to worry and compromise by not using a disposer. I say the contractor should be the one to worry about solving this problem.

It isn’t very hard to lower an 1 1/2” galvanized drain down a couple inches especially when the wall is open even if it’s individually vented even for an inexperienced contractor, the work should’ve been performed properly and all foreseen issues taken care of… I hate when contractors cheap out

I say the contractor should have been given a set of specifications for the work to be performed.

Yes, actual specs and or plans/sketches.

Else one hears the phrase: That's what the contractor gave me.


food for thought:

? what do(es) the FILED plan(s) show for the requested PERMIT for the remodel ?

? no permit: refer to the commonly heard phrase above ?

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I guess your right the op should’ve walked as soon as he realized he knew more than his contractor

If that is the bottom of the sink we are looking at your going to be hard pressed to get a trap in there .... forget the disposal...it-aint-happening. Dave, is there a permit pulled on this job? If not, you're going to be left out in the cold.

I don't agree the kitchen sink stubout needs to be on the filed plans for permits. May be it differs from city to city but where I am all they care about are ISOs during plan reviews. They don't ask for stubout heights for supplies and drains.

In a perfect world yes nice that every dimension is detailed and labeled.

Now on the contract between owner and contractor it should include what fixtures are to be used. I will say if the owner said I want a double stainless steel sink brand A model B 10" deep, with that special brand G pulldown faucet and a disposer brand C model D with X horsepower, and this brand E model F dishwasher on the left, then it should be enough for the contractor to work from there, taking the owners list and the manufacturer specifications and work out the plumbing electrical countertop details. Unless none of that was discussed and it was a "decide as we move along and pay you by the day" kind of arrangement. But if the owner mentioned it twice I have to assume this was discussed and agreed to.

If DaveL would chime back in I would love some real measurements...bottom of the ss sink outlet and center line of that pvc would be nice to start. Hight of that drain is unexpectable no matter what. At the very least there looking at a separate trap for the dishwasher.

@ sum,

Quote

..... Now on the contract between owner and contractor it should include what fixtures are to be used. .....

absolutely correct

that would be the 'specifications'

IN WRITING

signed by both parties

CONTRACT FORMED


a/k/a: job specs

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

NoHub, Dave gave the measurement in his first post :

So now the distance between the bottom of the sink and the center of the drain in the wall is 3"

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Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

thanks LI Guy, Thats not good. I think it's Drum trap time.

Drum trap LOL. That or a pump to bring the waste up to the stubout.

DRUM TRAP? How 1930's. A "P" trap out of 90's would make the connection, but the real issue is that someone "NOT A PLUMBER" did not lower the drain before the cabinets were installed. ANY "Legitimate plumber" would have done that, even without being told to.

Right on AZ

P-trap out of 90's???, that's hack-o-Rama handyman page 1. Where's the cleanout at the bottom going to be? a dandy under water??. Show me in any code book where it says you can "build your own" p-trap.

Show me where you CANNOT.

they make a nice little 1 1/2" pvc drum trap that will get this person out of the weeds there in. Build away HJ, just keep in mind the 2" min and 4" max water depth requirement needed for a p-trap. Pvc Drum traps are fine as long as your close to the stack.

A deep seal trap can be max 8” it will drain regardless of the depth of the trap seal as long as the drain is lower than the sink bowl just not as efficiently or without odor

That being said we all agree it should have been lowered during the rough in while drywall was removed the contractor is responsible for getting it right, hopefully there was a signed contract and inspection for DaveLs sake… let’s not forget he thought it was wrong the whole time it’s ridiculous situation

bsipps , please post a plumbing code that says a trap can be 8" deep.

bsipps,


there were no plans

there were no specs

there was no permit



! prove me wrong, anyone !

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

No hub
Unfortunately this site will not let me post the link for some reason but if you dig deep enough it’s there

Bern
Don’t care

Don’t care

Don’t care

The work should have been performed properly and his clients concerns addressed there are many jobs done without permits and no issues arise and again inspections are for the home/ property owner mainly yes for this reason… they don’t get screwed and also the township needs their money as well

bsipps, that 8" depth number should be on more than just one site if it is true...cut and paste it from a code book.



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bern, my little town has a winter population of less than 6000. slightly more than 1/2 are senior citizens.
we have a volunteer fire dept, we don't have a traffic light in town, we have one gas station, we are the last stop on the commuter rail service ... i don't know why i am going on and on? the concept of an honest plumber and an honest contractor working together bound only by a handshake is something you are unfamiliar with.
i have been in business in town since the early 70's. i have made a good living and have not spent 10 cents on advertising. the next contract i sign will be my first.
!prove me wrong!

Would you like to trade homes? Im in Carlsbad, CA

Quote

.............. the concept of an honest plumber and an honest contractor working together bound only by a handshake is something you are unfamiliar with. ...........

I am very familiar with the concept.

I tend to run my 'personal' work in that manner.

BUT

Said principle only works IF both consumer AND contractor are 'educated' re: the job at hand

AND

only money for materials is paid 'upfront'

AND

everybody knows everybody.


anecdotal:

When I had my open porch redone into a new bedroom and a vinyl vented tiled 'raised lanai' with a cost into the mid 5 figures the job was done with a handshake and a VERBAL set of required specs to the GC. (and, i hate to admit, a retroactive permit)

HOWEVER

I supervised/checked on/and was involved in the work making SURE it both exceeded code and met my specs.


Packy, you and I are actually on the same page. But, we only see problems on this site. Most of said problems were avoidable if 'standard' business procedures had been followed and permits obtained.

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

no up front payment
some form of payment when materials and plumber show up.

payment for materials as they are 'provided'

payment for labor AFTER satisfactory performance

often same day right after work performed if 'small' job


in increments as agreed if large multi-day job

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Thanks for all the responses. I had a licensed plumbing company come in including their drain and sewer guy and was told there is not enough room to make a flush cut at the top of the sanitary T on the old galvanized pipe with the sink in the way. The only way to fix this now is by removing the quartz countertop and sink base.

Of course my contractor is unwilling to do this and says he has a guy that can do it without all that. I am sure his "guy" is not a licensed plumber and so this is not a remedy for me. So until I can get him to remove counter and sink base I am left without a function sink and water in my kitchen.

Packy posted above that he thought if it was an easy fix it would have been done. Looks like a straight forward fix me.
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Yes it would have been an straight forward fix when the wall was wide open.

Now it's a tricky fix to have to deal with the tight space. With the wall behind the pipe, the stud to it's right, and the sink in place.

What is your exterior wall like behind those 1X8 sheathing? Is it stucco or siding? Any possibility of going outside and cut open the exterior wall, remove three sheathing sections between two studs and go at it that way?

and what did your contractor say about his earlier comments to "not worry"? did he admit he was wrong or did he just make it seem like this is no big deal and your wanting a disposer made him change his plans.

Leave existing tee in place and make it a clean out.

Cut out section of pipe below it and add a san tee with 2 no-hub couplings.

From where I sit looks like enough room.

Use a clean-out plug in the present tee. Cut below the present tee to install a new tee for the sink drain. You should be able to do it from inside the cabinet with a new panel fabricated to cover the opening as suggested above

At the end of the day, contracts or not, a contractor with integrity is what's important. If I am dealing with a lazy, incompetent contractor, even if the contract details everything and I can point to language that he is not doing this this and that, I am not sure I want to hover over his shoulders every minute to make sure he is doing everything correctly, and if short cuts are being made that makes the work substandard, I can't pay someone to leave quick enough to keep wasting time.



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@ sharp1 (IL) and the OP,




==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I did ask the plumber about putting a plug in the current T and he said he doubted if he would be able to unscrew the current pipe from the stack on 66 year old galvanized pipe. He felt that it would snap off. That's exactly what happened in my laundry room when I installed a deep sink.

no need to unscrew the galvanized stub. You can try to unscrew it and repurpose it into a cleanout, but if the sink is in the way, then it cannot be used as a cleanout anyway as it will be a real pain to run a snake under the sink and bend it upwards to get into an opening to snake down. You can just cut back the stub as far back as possible then seal with a rubber cap.



If they can cut a new section lower, and put in a sanitary tee, you can connect to it a wye with one inlet being the cleanout the other inlet the p-trap.

What Sum said.

Find a plumber that has done service work.

For a plumber with experience this is not rocket science.



Edited 1 times.

He installed in a wrong manner the sink height is too high, I agree the drain needs to be lower from the bottom to get out the disposal garbage. You need to call a good residential plumber who was experienced in plumbing.

The requirements for including specific details, such as the kitchen sink stubout, on filed plans for permits can vary depending on local building codes and regulations. While some jurisdictions may focus primarily on isometric drawings during plan reviews, others may require more detailed information. It's advisable to consult the local building department to understand the specific requirements for your area. In the contract between the owner and the contractor, including as much detail as possible, such as specific fixture specifications, helps to avoid misunderstandings. The contractor can then use the provided information and manufacturer specifications to work out the necessary plumbing, electrical, and countertop details. Clear communication and documentation are crucial to ensure a smooth construction process and avoid potential issues.



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