A few questions about PEX-A tubings.

I can't seem to find PEX-A tubing in blue and red. I was going to order some in blue and some in red but no where can they be found. All I can find are white tubings in black, blue and red letters. I swear they were available in blue and red but right now I can't find any unless you are ordering 500' or 1000' coils.

QUESTION #1: Is the white tubing with black print and white tubing in blue print easy to tell apart in low light conditions in crawlspaces and attics?





I am planning to get PEX-A made by UPONOR AquaPEX that seems to be the most popular and well reviewed PEX-A. However I also see another kind of PEX-A that is higher in price by UPONOR called "UPONOR Wirsbo hePEX".

QUESTION #2: What is hePEX and is it a better quality PEX-A tubing?



QUESTION #3"I also saw some PEX-A tubing in purple color. What is that for?



Finally, I ran into this article which is quite alarming. The title stated "‘Discontinued’ Red, Blue Uponor PEX Piping Plagued by Cracking Defect, Class Action Alleges". Now I don't believe everything I read on the internet but I am concerned. The lawsuit claims that Uponor tubing in blue and red are brittle and develops microcracks because of the way the blue and red coloring are done.

[www.classaction.org]

I can say the hepex is for heating it has an oxygen barrier and should only be used in radiant in floor heating and boiler systems I’m not sure if you can use it for a potable water system…and yes all supply houses I know have stopped selling the red and blue from uponor I believe they now stock the legend red and blue

he-pex is fine for potable water systems.
only thing is that most that i know of is orange in color.
my favorite, although much more expensive, is 'fosta pex'
[www.globalpipe.de]

The blue and red they sell at the orange store are Pex-B. not sure what brand. One thing to consider is the tool and the fittings. Fine to order online for one job, but if you need to make a repair, having to wait for fittings to be shipped can be problematic. I would check that there is a supply house that's local who carries A fittings, they don't have them at the big box stores.

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Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

so I guess I will need to get the blue or red print on white instead of the solid blue and red which seems to be the target of this class action lawsuit. I hope this doesn't mean Uponor's white tubing is also a problem.

Looking through all the reviews as far as PEX-A tubing there are many brands but Uponor seems to be the overwhelming positive brand, after that is Apollo which is readily available from big box stores. I don't know if there are any substantial differences between the two but I think I am going with Uponor. Packy mentioned that PEX-A can be connected via expansion the typical way or can also be crimped so I will first lay and pull all the tubing in my crawlspace then worry about the connections later.

They sell Apollo brand PEX-A tubing at the big box. It is actually very confusing because some of the fittings are not cross compatible as I read through many reviews and specs, even one brand PEX-B fitting may not work on another brand PEX-B tubing. I don't know if the "does not work" is actually practically they do not work, or whether if you do it and it leaks then there is no warranty whatsoever.

I am not so concerned about availability as Ferguson have all the Uponor fittings I need, and the only down side is they are not opened on weekends like the big box stores. In the event I need emergency repairs done at 4am on a Saturday morning I can always go to my inventory of various Sharkbite fittings for temp use if it comes to that then do the proper fix a few days later.

I am doing the piping so that there will be minimum joints in the crawlspace. Only connections will be where it ties into the copper risers at the existing connections which I can do nothing about. I am still undecided what fittings to use at this point may be PEX-A expansion or do the crimp on PEX-A tubing which more and more people are doing that allows you to get the benefits of PEX-A tubing flexibility and PEX-B fitting versatility and speed, especially in terms of no need to wait for the expanded fittings to contract for a period of time before you can turn water on to test.

If you have 1/2” copper you can use 3/4 pex b it’s basically the the same ID

sum,

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m...u...s...t p...r...a...c...t...i...c...e r...e...a...d...i...n...g



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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



Edited 1 times.

Sum, why not go into Ferguson's and buy $500 or $600 worth the Pex-A tubing and Uponor fittings...Then you'll have it on the weekend when you need it. I have fittings I know will be used maybe once in a few years, but I have them. I'm guessing you finely broke down and bought an expander tool. Whether it's cold expansion or Viega Pureflow System just stay away from those cheapie box store crimping systems and the push fittings.

bernabeu, interesting article but I believe it says the solid-colored Pipe has Problems not the clear lettered pipe.



Edited 1 times.

perhaps

start quote:

PEX piping is popular due to its flexibility and ease of installation, the suit begins. The case says that most PEX manufacturers, unlike Uponor, add red or blue pigment along with antioxidant stabilizers to the tubing’s plastic formulation during the extrusion process, i.e., when the tubing is formed, and prior to cross-linking, which adds color evenly throughout the tubing wall.

In Uponor’s manufacturing process, however, the PEX tubing is made prior to the addition of blue or red coating to its outside surface, according to the suit. Given coatings do not stick to PEX, Uponor has patented a color-coating process that involves sending the tubing through a heated oxidization method that effectively burns the outside of the pipe, the case reads, displaying a picture purporting to show the difference between other manufacturers’ PEX and that of the defendants:

.............................................................................................................end quote




I 'read' the above to mean the application of the colored printing - I probably was in error.

HOWEVER

As predicted: here come the plastic PEX tube horror issues



==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I hear you, but not for me. I never liked the colored Pex wirsbo/Uponor tubing. A very successful realtor I worked with once called it circus pipe when he saw my install and that was the end of colored Pex for this kid. In the old days the expansion rings had a blue or red lettering on them to decipher from hot and cold. Clear tubing looks neat and uniform. I don't think red/blue Uponor Pex is still on the market.

NoHub, funny you say that. I actually was looking to buy the Uponor tubing at Ferguson and I was checking which store has them in stock.

I needed 200ft of the 3/4" and 100ft of 1/2" for phase one. I wanted the blue and red because I can easily tell them apart in the crawlspace which is which. But I cannot find the blue and red only white with colored printing.

I started to look for Uponor blue and red tubing and then I stumbled onto that article, after reading it I got confused...you mean I did all this research to decide to buy Uponor and now it has a class action lawsuit about micro-fractures on the tubing when expanded? But it seems to be only the red and blue.

By the way the red and blue are still available but only in 500' or 1000' rolls, why I don't know.

my original plan was to use the white 1" for the main feed from outside through the crawlspace to the garage, then use blue 3/4" for cold to various areas or fixtures, and red 1/2" for hot to various areas or fixtures.

Now I will probably use the blue and red printed white. I am not sure how easy to tell them apart while in the crawlspace.

I read somewhere I need to uncoil the rolls and leave them in the sun for a few days to allow them to straighten up before using them is that true?

I am also looking for tube talons to secure the PEX to the joists. I saw one from Uponor that comes in a bag of 100 that works with both 1/2" and 3/4" but reviews were great two years ago but last year it went from great to horrible as everyone was complaining the nail on the talon used to be very easy to use but the latest version the nails were skinnier and cheaper and reviews said most times the nail would bend upon hitting by a hammer and one guy said he was able to use 2 and throw away eight for every ten talons. Are there good talons out there that will do both 1/2 and 3/4?



Edited 1 times.

I use Sioux chief brand they usually only bend when I hit a knot in the wood,never tried the 1/2 3/4 combo ones though

sum, if you are buying from ferguson, they have all kinds of tube talons

[www.ferguson.com]

Sum... all the aqua Pex ( uponor/wirsbo) is color labeled Red or blue lettering. these are the sku numbers you can use at the supplier. I Prefer the 20 footers myself over the coils, so much easier to work with and a much nicer looking job.


f4240500

f4340500



Edited 1 times.

Haha "leave it out in the sun for a few days", but then you have to worry about UV damage: [www.flowguardgold.com]

I agree on the straight lengths, it's only a few cents more per foot than buying by the roll.

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Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

But isn't the main point of using PEX is to avoid intermediate joints? How do I avoid joints unless I buy them in rolls? From my garage to the bathroom is 52'. I don't want to add two joints for that run. I will have some joints where I connect to the copper risers otherwise no other joint except at the manifolds. May be it's just my OCD?

In your case being under a crawl space coil home runs would be preferred. In a basement where it is exposed 20 footers are the way to go if you want to make it look good. Did you buy the tool yet? It's off pattern and everyone and their uncle is selling them.

I haven't bought the tool yet. I am planning on getting a Milwaukee tool since I am already on the M18 platform, but the M12 is more compact and lighter. Do you have a preference of which tool is best?

M12 is just fine. The expansion method really shines in your warm/hot climate. It can be a bit tougher the colder it is.

well I think I have a problem.

the line coming from the water meter to my house is 3/4". I am running the main feed in 3/4" pex to the garage where the manifolds will be.

I need to have a manifold with 3/4" IN and four 3/4" outlets and four 1/2" outlets. I can't find such an animal. Actually I can't find ANY 3/4" IN and 3/4" OUT manifold at all. Even 1" IN and 3/4" OUT is not available. Most of them are 1/2" OUT.

Looks like I will have to sweat my own manifolds with copper tees and solder my own valves and PEX adapter to get exactly what I need. I can't even find a copper manifold with 1" or 3/4" IN and 3/4" OUT straight sweat copper multi port tees.

"Millions of custom options. Sioux Chief can build the manifold you need. Contact Sioux Chief to receive a quote. Scan Sioux Chief's QR code to be directed to our custom Manifold Builder Form, and start saving with BranchMaster Manifolds today.".....

[www.siouxchief.com].

Good point about the joints, I see the point now./

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Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

Packy, thanks. I was looking around online yesterday and realized the same thing that someone must be building them. I company I found is Alberta Custom Tee customtee.com, I didn't know Sioux Chief builds them too, and i just looked and they have a special order form you can spec out your manifolds. The only problem is on their form they have a minimum quantity of 25 manifolds of the same kind.

I also found that the PEX manifold valves used in these manifolds are not full port. They are quarter turns but not full port.

sum, it looks like you are stuck making your own manifolds.

since you are not paying yourself by the hour, you can set at the trusty workbench and take your time and solder up your own custom manifold.
yeah it would be faster to press the whole thing but the tool plus the needed jaws would be cost prohibative for a couple dozen joints

Packy, looks that way.

But I am really surprised that something like this is not readily available. I mean many home owners doing PEX repipe will want a somewhat custom header with certain 3/4" outlets and certain number of 1/2" outlets. If there is a minimum order of 25 manifolds then who are the target customers of this? Wholesalers who order them in large quantities for new construction of a multi-home development? Not individual plumbers or home owners who just want a few custom one-off manifolds.

perhaps the minimum order requirement is because the 'factory' manifolds are brazed not soldered

the 'factory' joints are, or should be, as strong or stronger than the copper itself




ps. a 'factory' would be set up to 'hot dip' the manifold BUT it would be cost prohibitive to make one or two on a custom basis

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Sum, is this a house or multi-unit ?

No Hub it's a house.

Quote
sum
I mean many home owners doing PEX repipe will want a somewhat custom header with certain 3/4" outlets and certain number of 1/2" outlets.

Yeah...not sure if many homeowners are doing a complete pex re-pipe. Although I wound up doing a complete re-pipe on our LI house, if I had realized it was going to turn into that I would've used pex...but the copper looks really good in a 1917 basement

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Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

Bernabeu,

I am not sure why the minimum quantity on custom headers. Probably as you said it's not cost effective to do one offs and two offs. So to me their intended customers would be commercial or industrial sectors needing custom configurations for multiple installations. Plumber Paul or Jill doing a re-pipe for a client needing two custom headers are not what they are after.

I am not sure how these copper headers are made. In looking at these headers one of the companies stated that these outlet ports, while copper, CANNOT be pressed. So you can solder to it a copper fitting or crimp a PEX fitting to it but you cannot use a press copper fitting. I wonder why that is, may be it is not as solid as a copper pipe.

After sitting down and sketching out what I really need, I am coming to terms that I really need a custom header made.

The reasons are: My inlet supply will be 3/4". I want a 1" trunk. From that trunk I want five 3/4" outlets (include one spare for future), and four 1/2" outlets (include one spare for future). On top of that, three of the 1/2" outlets are to be connected to copper, not PEX. This is because they are running to the washing machine, two hose bibbs one in front of garage one in the back of garage, all these are existing fixtures in the garage and already in hard copper, so why would I want to do a short section of PEX just to connect to copper? So this mixture of 3/4" and 1/2" AND some PEX some copper means there is not going to be a stock manifold ready to be purchased.

The same on the hot side, 3/4" trunk, 1/2" outlets, but some copper some PEX.

So I want to use 3/4" valves at 3/4" branches and 1/2" valves at 1/2" branches.



My best bet is probably if I can find a copper multiport tee with 1" inlet/outlets, then adapt each port individually to 3/4" or 1/2" and/or to PEX or copper.

So right now I am searching for an 8 port copper manifold without valves for the cold side, with 3/4" branches. The hot side a 6 port copper manifold without valves, with 1/2" branches. I will do the valves and adapters myself.

pricey but effective:


use brass threaded tees and shoulder nipples

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Sum you can just get tees and connect them with short pieces of pipe, then solder 'em up. Make it however you need it to be.

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Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

Sum, here is the system I and most Professional Plumbers use. It comes in cold expansion, crimp & other methods. those siox chief copper tees can come back to haunt you. I know they look easy but one of those factory soldered joints leak (and they do) you're in big trouble.

[www.youtube.com]

sum, at this point i am now leaning toward using an all pex manifold.
make it up yourself, size the tees to suit your needs and orient the outlets any way that works best.

NoHub I don't think I can use these Manoblock because they are double sided and requires space on each side left and right to spread out the outlet tubing like a spider.

My situation is unique I have pipes coming up from the crawlspace and going back down into the crawlspace both hot and cold in a narrow stud bay, I have about 18" to work with, so everything needs to be one sided. The manifold outlets need to be pointing down then the lines run into the crawlspace. I had planned on having two one sided manifold with the hot mounted on the wall outlets all down, then the cold mounted lower but stand off the wall more also pointing down.

I just talked to Sioux Chief and they said their custom manifold operation has been suspended for now. No idea if it's COVID or something else, but I did confirm the 25 minimum order. So if I need a special cold manifold and a special hot manifold done, I need to order 25 of each.

So back to the drawing board.

I also looked up a few internet projects other people who did their own manifold. One guy made an interesting comment about the manifold outlets being spaced very close, like 2", and he used regular ball valves attached himself. He said he attached the valves with PEX crimps and when he needs to turn the valves off, the handle will hit the next branch, so he can rotate the valves handle out, then close it. So are the PEX connection kind of loose "rotationally" like sharkbites that you can take a PEX (crimped, pinched, expanded) coupling and turn it independently of the tubing?

I don't have an answer to your question about rotating pex fittings but when I am doing repairs and there are pex fittings around and they sometimes rotate on me even though I was not intending to rotate it, it makes me nervous. Never had a rotated fitting leak so far.

With your pex repipe, I hope you are doing your stubouts in copper. I have come across situations where a supply valve attached to pex is beginning to leak at the pex joint and there is not enough pipe outside the drywall to cut out the existing joint and make a new joint on the pex pipe. Now the drywall has to be opened up.

george, thank you...the stubout is in copper, because it already is that way, The way I am repiping, is probably not best practice, because I am not running dozens and dozens of PEX, one for each fixture. The way the pipes are now, the existing PB pipes in the crawlspace are connected to two copper risers under the kitchen one cold one hot. So I am running two PEX lines over to connect to the two copper. So my PEX piping will control one "area" instead of one fixture.

I know it's not best practice, because say for a master bath, you will need one cold line for toilet, one cold and one hot line for his sink, one cold and one hot for her sink, one cold and one hot for tub, one cold and one hot for shower, that's five cold and four hot total nine runs for one bathroom. Kitchen needs four (hot and cold faucet, icemaker, dishwasher). That is A LOT of pipe runs and I hate going down to the crawlspace.

"when I am doing repairs and there are pex fittings around and they sometimes rotate on me even though I was not intending to rotate it, it makes me nervous."

I also get a bit uneasy when the pipe or fitting rotates freely when connected. Sharkbites are the same way. I hate when someone has a copper riser from below going into a sink cabinet, then connects to a sharkbite elbow, then a sharkbite valve. The valve spins 360, and the elbow spins 360 orthogonally. Too much swinging and spinning around for me.

To me if I have to rotate a valve in order to turn the valve handle on and off, that's not something I want to do.