Hi, all.

I am a newbie to plumbing, so please bear with my dumb questions here.

Basically, I need to replace a dual-valve splitter(?) that separates the hot water inlet from the wall into a line (3/8 inch) to a sink faucet and a line (3/8 inch) to the dishwasher. When replacing the dishwasher recently, I turned the valves off, but the hot water flow to the sink dropped a lot afterwards, and now I cannot close the valves enough to stop the water to the sink to check the faucet cartridge!

To me, this implies I damaged the valves somehow (20 years old now), or some mold/dirt has flowed into the faucet cartridge (the hot water is way slower than the cold - separate valve and pipe) and I need to clean/replace it.

1. It is my understanding that the pipe from the wall is 1/2 inch Copper (looks brown enough?), but the OD measures 0.625" on a micrometer. Does this mean that the pipe is Copper (and thick enough Copper)? I cannot remove the existing dual-valve connector to check - water is going to go everywhere! (Yes, I will need to drain the house water to do the connector replacement anyway, but just asking first.)

2. I am considering using a Sharkbite dual-valve to make the job easier for me - I think I have enough Copper length (1 inch) from the wall to do this and it is not flexing so I should be able to push the connector on. Do people have good or bad experiences with Sharkbite? My water is below 200 F (the upper spec for this connector).

3. Or do you all think a compression 1/2 inch would be better? The room below the sink is tight and I may not be able to get a wrench in there easily to tighten a compression nut!

4. I am also thinking of replacing the current full-turn valves with quarter-turn. This seems a much better way to go - with a positive "indication" of flow on/off (easy to see which direction the knob is set), easier to turn, less likely to leak, etc. Any concerns I should be worrying about?

Thanks much for any advice!

Z

Here is the image of the existing corroded connector:





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your lucky day...

the valve you have is a 1/2 copper COMPRESSION valve
all you need do is (after shutting off the hot water) loosen the brass nut on the copper tubing.
spin the nut so the valve comes right off.
use some steel wool to clean up the existing ferrule, apply a dab of any kind of grease and tighten the new valve onto that connection. you'll need 2 wrenches for this.
on a scale of 1 to 10, your job barely shows up on the scale.

On more thing to add from Packy's previous post the nut as you face the wall will turn clockwise to loosen Buy the new replacement first and this will show you how the old one is removed Unfortunately even though the apparatus is 1/2 compression occasionally there are angle shutoffs that have different threaded nuts that will not match up with the new replacement and if so you will need a ferrel puller about 20 bucks which will pull the old nut and furred off the copper pipe

if the handles say 'brasscraft' simply buy a new valve and swap out the guts

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Thanks much for the help! Much appreciated.

I get the impression that you all prefer standard Compression connectors rather than push-on Sharkbite stuff?

My only problem is the limited space ... this wall outlet is behind the disposal and not exactly easy to reach - the picture was taken somewhat blindly by holding the phone below it.

Getting a 5/8" wrench back there is not going to be too easy.

The builder must have installed the connector first, before the disposal, etc.

Author: bernabeu (SC) said
> if the handles say 'brasscraft' simply buy a new valve and swap out the guts

Hmmm ... okay ...

I think I am going to change to a quarter-turn valve instead - had a plumber do this elsewhere (a couple of toilet inlets that had started to leak) a while back and they do seem to be easier to deal with, as far as I can tell?

This time, I plan to replace the rest of the full-turn valves at my house myself ... going to get some experience with this dual-valve connector first.

The cold-water inlet below the kitchen sink is a single-valve full-turn, and much more "reachable" with a 5/8 inch wrench (if I go with 1/2 inch Compression rather than a Sharkbite).

Could you all add some thoughts about your experiences with the Sharkbite? It just seems so much simpler to use!



Edited 1 times.

they are simple

they are cheap

they are a 'friction fit' clamp

they are NOT 'time proven'

they are third class installations for the plumbing noobies and for test purposes for the pros (think caps)

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Okay, good to know!

I will get a standard Compression type then and see if I can wangle the wrenches back there to tighten the 1/2 inch nut on.

Thanks much!

Z

One final question, folks, and then I will "go for it".

Dahl appears to recommend using a 1/2 inch tee (two 1.2 inch outlets) with two separate 1/2 inch to 3/8 inch quarter-turn stop valves.

Unlike the Brasscraft or Keeney (?) with the dual-valves within a single body.

Of course, Dahl ends up being more expensive as a result.

Any thoughts as to which would be a "better" approach pros and cons?

Thanks, everybody!

Z



Edited 1 times.

kiss the job

kiss = an old time computer programmer's saying: keep it simple, stupid


simply replace (or rebuild) what is there

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

You did recommend that earlier, thanks!

But, after looking at one of the older full-turn valves that the plumber replaced at my house some time back, I am very concerned that the plastic stems on them have degraded badly. One under-sink valve had started leaking slowly.

So, I feel better replacing valves - with new quarter-turn ones. Just would rest easier to avoid leaks creating water damage ... have a son with mold illness issues, and avoiding wet wall, etc., conditions are a big deal for us.

Thanks for your responses for sure,

Z

A lot of folks like sharkbites because they are easier to use.

Whether sharkbites are reliable or not that's another debate. In general old timers dislike it because it's newer and therefore no one can prove it will still work twenty years from now. Sharkbites valves also swivel around the pipe freely, and that may be undesirable in some situations. Sharkbites are also more expensive.

In your case, I would go with a compression valve because you have no idea if the current compression valve,vehrn it was installed many years ago, may or may not have been overtightened. In many cases of overtightening the compression nut will cause the nut to squeeze on the ferrule and strangle the copper pipe. If the pipe was strangled, you will have a hard time removing the ferrule and nut without a special tool, and a sharkbite does not seal well around deformed pipes.

Thanks!

As recommended by somebody else here, I will also get a ferrule puller ... a bit tight on space, so I hope I don't need it for this kitchen situation, but better to be safe.

I can use it for the other stop valves I want to replace around the house. Counted 12 that need to be changed (all are angle stops with a single feed to a 3/8" line to a faucet or toilet!

Z



Edited 1 times.

the 'leak' may be as simple as tightening or replacing the packing

[homedepot.scene7.com]

[images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com]



FIRST:

try to tighten the packing nut (1/4 - 1/2 turn)

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Thanks, bernabeu!

Yeah, in the case of the kitchen sink hot water splitter, I broke something inside, I think! The water flow is too low when the valve is on and will not shut off the flow when turned off. No present leak on those valves (although the green corrosion in the picture above implies that it had in the past?)

Yes, I could probably repair it with the kit you show, but since I want to switch to quarter-turn for simplicity, I ordered a new Brasscraft dual-valve unit. The stems on this [www.homedepot.com] are brass so that and the ball-valve should be more reliable in the long run. It was $21, so not too bad a cost.

I will look at the other single stop-valves around the house and see if the repair kit is more useful there. Thanks for the links!

Z



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you are welcome


FYI: a brass stem valve may be either compression (washer with multi turns) or 1/4 turn ball type


a 1/4 turn ball type is invariably brass or s/s stem


remember:


1/4 turn valves are king

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

mr leak (CA) said:

> you will need a ferrel puller about 20 bucks which will pull the old nut and furred off the copper pipe

Thank you (and sum) very much for this critical advice!

After I opened the old compression nut for the old valve, I discovered a problem with the way that the original installer had installed the original valves! Making the old brass ferrule quite impossible to remove.

If I had not prepared by getting a ferrule puller ahead of time (like you recommended), I would have been in trouble (was late at night and I would have had to wait overnight without water till I got to a store).

As it was, the puller I bought from Amazon was a bit of a tight fit - luckily, it had a place where I could use a wrench to turn it since the handle at the back was jammed up against a drain pipe.

I will write up my experiences in a different thread ...

Again, my thanks for this advice.

Z



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