Greetings. I'm a home DIY guy with a house built in 1939, and I have a simple project that has now become a big problem. I'm hoping to hear some useful advice that might keep me from having to tear up drywall and rework some copper water supply piping.

All I want to do is replace 2 undersink valves. First, when I removed the faulty old valves, I saw they were attached to 1/2" copper pipes with compression fittings. I went to remove the old brass ferrule, but it was stuck in place, so I decided to reuse the old compression nut and ring and attached it to the new valve. It almost worked, but both valves had very slow leakage. I tried tightening the compression nuts but they still leaked.

Next, I bought a compression ring removal tool and removed the ring from one of the intake pipes. It was VERY TIGHT and hard to remove. I had to use vice grips attached to the rotation part of the tool to increase my torque. When the ferrule finally came off, it had actually compressed the copper pipe from its original position to the end of the pipe (about 3/4" in distance along the pipe length). Now, it appears that section of the pipe is maybe 1/16" smaller in diameter than the rest of the pipe.

Then I put the new compression nut and ferrule onto the pipe, but I noticed the ferrule was VERY loose with a fair amount of play. Of course, when I tightened the nut, the nut and valve seemed to be tightly attached to the pipe. I thought tightening the nut may have tightened the ferrule too. Unfortunately, I was very wrong. When I turned on the water, it came spraying out of the compression fitting, poured onto the floor, and poured into my basement almost immediately.

The pipes are too short to cut and still have room to add a valve, so I'd probably have to tear up my drywall to get back to the piping behind the wall to build out new, longer water pipes. I want to avoid that.

Now my Qs. Is there any way I can safely attach a valve to a slightly smaller than normal copper pipe? As noted, there was a fair amount of play between the new ferrule and the old pipe end. I'm concerned that even if I solder a valve or pipe extension onto the pipe, it may not be water tight due to this smaller than standard pipe diameter. Any suggestions about that?

Alternatively, is there a feasible way to expand a copper pipe back to normal diameter? I can't think of a good way to do it other than to wrap some strong aluminum tape around the compressed part of the pipe to build it back up. But my concern is that even strong tape is not permanent and could lose its shape over time (or immediately), not work properly with a compression nut and ring, and result in leakage. Any thoughts about this?

What about Sharkbite products? Do they attach to pipes that are not exactly standard diameter, and if so would they still be water tight? Or perhaps a combination of aluminum tape wrapped over the copper pipe section to restore its original diameter, and then attach it to a Sharkbite valve?

I'm slightly desperate to find a solution and I'm all ears to your suggestions.

Thank you,
Mark

Copper tube expanders exist. You would probably need to anneal the tube to prevent it from splitting.

ditto


+



you could swage the 'stub' and solder on a short (new) piece

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

they make all kinds of copper tube swaging tools.
the trick is you don't want to expand it to 5/8 ID (very common).
you want to expand it to 5/8 OD. (not so common)
so, do an internet search to hopefully find what you need.
[www.google.com]

Here is another option. You mentioned that if you cut it further back to remove the strangled section there isn't enough copper exposed to make the connection to a valve.

In this case, you have two options.

(1) solder on a coupling and an extension copper pipe, this means the valve now will have to be connected further out from the wall, to compensate for that you will need to use a deep bell escutcheon.

or

(2) cut the strangled section out, extend out with a special internal extension piece. Sioux Chief makes an extension adapter kit that extends out a type M copper pipe with an integrated internal coupling without increasing the OD so you can still put on a standard escutcheon and connect the valve. The part number is 972-3RAKIT. They come with an epoxy pack that can be used to put on the extension, I have used it a few times in hail mary situations but I always solder it instead. Beware that this internal extension is for type M if you have type L it will not fit.

1939 home !



If it is truly copper it 'might' actually be "B" tube with a 3/8 nominal size.

"B" tube = IPS OD

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638