Hello, I want to thank everybody for helping me with my post a couple of weeks ago. I want to clarify the issue I am having to help pinpoint the solution. 2 valve shower + 2 valve tub

After replacing the shower hot stem, seat cartridge and packing nut, there is NO noise, NO vibration or leaks when I turn the handle on. When I leave the water running on a low setting or turn the handle so slightly either way from there in that general range, vibration and an immediate sudden loss of hot water out of the shower head will occur. I could simply play with the handle in that general range and the noise will soon appear. At that point if open up the valve further by turning the tap on high, the vibration will totally disappear and the water will flow fine, very strong and fully hot.

Here is what I can add:

The plumber replaced the seat and cartridge. He tightened the packing nut very snug, as the handle is harder to turn on and off now than the original cartridge.

The new parts did not come with a new escutcheon nipple.

I called and emailed American Standard and sent pictures of the original and replacement parts to see if they somehow have an OEM on hand but they have not responded yet.

I called the plumbing supply store to see if they have another manufacturer for that specific part but they said they do not. (I asked because I think HJ mentioned on a previous post to another with a similar issue that it may be an improperly manufactured part.)

The plumbing store added that there might be debris somewhere in the cartridge causing the problem. They claimed that they never had similar issues with this part.

The plumber recommends installing an anti scold valve, something that I don't want to do as it will involve demolishing the newly reglazed tile and cost $$$!!

I am writing this to try and cover all bases once the plumber comes back to inspect the cartridge. If all looks good, ie no debris, seat sitting snuggle, no loose washers, should I remove the questionable cartridge and install a duplicate since I bought 2? Does anybody know a different supplier of the said part to try?

Im sorry to repost this but I hope the clarification narrows down the issue? I know many of you posted that the vibration is not likely to cause a leak in the supply pipes but the house is from the 1930s and I am very scared the vibration might cause a leak at a joint somewhere unseen. Many thanks

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over tightening the packing nut does nothing to stop the problems you had.
the large nut below it must be very tight.
take off the handle, remove the packing nut, apply silicone grease to the stem area and put the nut back. tighten it, try the handle, tighten some more, try the handle until you get to the desired tightness.

Thanks Packy for the reply. I will be sure to take your advice when installing the handle in the future. My main concern however is rectifying the sudden vibration and loss of hot water after the tap is running normally then turned to the low position. It really just does not make any sense and with all the people who said a loose washer or washer screw can cause vibration issues, I would expect the vibration to occur continuously, right when the tap was turned on if that were my issue.

It's really frustrating, I mean my plumber does not know, the part supply store says they have not heard of such issue, American standard never responded to my pictures, and Ive not heard of this specific problem elsewhere

I was the one who responded with the same problem. I replaced the washer to stop the problem, but that only lasted maybe a month. I thought maybe I had old washers, so I bought new ones and had the same problem after about a month. The washer heats up with water usage and then the problem starts. I believe when the user closes the valve too tight, the washer distorts and then when it heats up, the water noise starts.

you need to find the 'orange color' heat resistant washers for the hot side


i am retired too long to remember the exact terminology or their actual composition

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

space age something or other.

Thanks guys: So do I only have to replace the seat washer with the orange heat resistant washer, or do I have to replace the packing washer, bonnet washer and the washer/ O ring thing attached to the outside of the seat with orange ones as well? May I ask you Steve when you replaced the washers did you use an orange type or just another regular black one? I find it strange that since they say these stems can be used on either the hot or cold side that they incorporate the same washer.

My washer says “0” on it, it was rubber but it feels like its not too flexible and the set screw was snug but does not allow any extra tightening down the way it sits.

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The ones I used were the standard black ones. The original stems used standard black ones.

Steve do you think that the brass washer may be the culprit since the original stem did not have one and when I sandwich it between the seat and the body it leaves a bit of wiggle?


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When you tighten the bonnet, the end of the bonnet contacts the spacer washer, which contacts the seat and forces the taper of the seat against the inside end of the stem bore of the valve body. The spacer washer is loose when it's out of the valve body. If you remove the spacer washer, the seat won't be forced tight against the valve body and water will leak past the water passage of the seat.

Ah I see now Steve, makes sense. Thanks for your time and I really hope that replacing the seat washer with an orange one will work. Should I lubricate the new washer?

lubricate the screw generously.

the washer is 'stamped' or 'marked' on ONE side

make sure that side is against the stem and NOT facing the seat

(the 'O' is the size of the washer)



the retaining screw has a shoulder so that it can NOT CRUSH the washer from overtightening


ps. the 'standard' washers have a 'shelf life' when stored dry - a 'good' washer will be quite firm but NOT hard

pps. it appears the modern 'jiffy packs' of washers have 'color coded' the sizes - so merely getting an 'orange' one may not solve the issue - in the olden times the color represented a premium hitemp washer, today ?

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



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Good morning Bernabeu: Good information there, thanks. I double checked the duplicate stem I saved (not installed) since I bought 2 exactly the same and that washer feels firm, not hard, and guess it is fine.

I have another Neoprene washer from a kit by "Aqua plumb" that feels a touch softer, size 0. Would you recommend I install that or a fiber washer instead for the hot side? Im not sure if a fiber will hold up to hot water better but I read it expand a bit when wet so might be able to compensate a bit with my issue.

Lastly, not to beat a dead horse but do you think that there could be any other cause for my problem given that the whole stem and seat was brand new, I personally picked up the part

if you open 'er up to mess with the washer - try the new stem and the fiber washer

you are on the correct track and have all requisite info

good luck

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I just noticed that there was a washer on the INSIDE of the old seat but on the new seat there is NO washer.

I’m confident that the washer in the old seat is not the washer attached to the stem screw because I remember we swapped that one out on first attempt and when we removed it the second time that washer was still attached to the screw.

So my question is should this new seat have a washer on the inside

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?? beats the heck out of me ??


good pick-up



try putting said washer into the new seat as it does not appear to 'seal', perhaps it is there as a vibration eliminator ?


? problem solved ?

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Is that a rubber seat or just darkened brass?

So I removed the new cartridge that I installed a month ago and saw the rubber washer had split and became flattened. I switched out the cartridge with a new one and put a fiber titeseal washer on instead of the rubber and it works fine now. Thanks everyone for the help



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