Just want to get some opinion of the pros in here, what do you think of what this plumber did to free up the nut on the old Delta valve? I think it's called the 600 series?

[www.youtube.com]

A blow torch?

I have a three unit apartment and all three of them have the same style valve from the 1960s. I have tried, but have never been able to get one off. Not that I must, because they still work. But every time I have a tenant move out, I remove the trim plate to try it, and if I could get it off, I would like to replace the guts inside. But so far no luck. I have tried lubrication, I have tried a heat gun, and a wrench, but I didn't push it with everything I got because it still works, and also because I do not have individual shutoffs to each apartment, there is a main shutoff for the building. So if I mess up, I have to turn everyone's water off for the repair.

If I ever need to remove that nut one day, I think my best bet is to cut the nut out with a Dremel.

step ONE should be:

loosen the tension ring



the retaining bell/nut/housing will then almost fall off in your hand IF you use large jaw basin wrench and get a 'wrap around' even bite

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

He did it the way I ALWAYS do it, exceept I do not keep the burner on one section of the cap. Move it around the perimeter so everything heats up evenly. The way he did it there is a good possibility he would melt the solder holding the small tubes into the front of the valve.

NEVER happened for me.

After loosening the tension ring, tap the chrome nut lightly with a hammer many, many times. Eventually you will be able to unscrew it by hand.



Edited 1 times.

that guy in the video is pretty wild with the torch with not much control.
admits to having twisted and broke that valve in a 3rd story condo and flooding the unit below.
that's brave and honest to admit that. That is really how you learn plumbing some times.
You can't afford to make the same mistake twice.



Edited 1 times.

Whatyou missed is that if the water had been turned off before starting to work on the valve, which is ALWAYS the fIRST STEP, it could NOT have flooded the building.

Mr tee,

? like this ?




picture a woodpecker


(i actually have a 3 oz brass ball peen hammer from a Curtis-Wright plant circa 1945)

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



Edited 1 times.

Spray WD-40 around the nut, then tap pretty hard all around the nut. Spray it again and tap around the perimeter of the nut again. Then take a small chisel and make a nick in the nut. Then use your hammer and chisel and tap the nut at an angle to loosen it. Eventually, the nut will come loose. PATIENCE! I've done it dozens of times, and knock on wood, it worked every time.

'knock on wood'

good one



==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Do Not use a pipe wrench on these valve nuts, you can mess them up really easy.

I use a Dremel. I cut a groove in the nut and split it open with a screw driver. It has never failed me.

I have never tried a torch. After watching the video I see no reason to switch and will stick with the Dremel.

Just my 2 cents.

last time I tried, I have used all the methods mentioned in this thread.

Tapping, soaking with WD40 and penetrating oil, soaking with vinegar in a plastic bag, drifting with a hammer and flat head screwdriver, didn't try a torch but did try with a heat gun on high all around, none worked.

This is the kind of valves I have.





Each time a tenant moves out I take two weeks to do a turn over and during that time I would give it a go to undo the dome nut. I have yet to undo one successfully. Since I do not need to remove one, I did it just to know I can remove it if one day an emergency happens and I would be under pressure to do so...and I put the trim and handle back on after failing.

May be next time I will cut out with a dremel. What is the part number for the dome nut, do you buy it as a delta part or they don't make it anymore and it has to be a generic replacement?

By the way I did remove the retaining plastic in the front. That came off easy.



Edited 1 times.

Delta RP50

[www.plumbingsupply.com]

Thanks Curly, the diagram you linked from the sponsor is a great reference!



but I now have more questions...in this diagram, my handle is a single knob handle as indicated at the top as RP17451, but I have the impossible to remove dome nut which is RP50, so if I want to replace the dome nut and the guts behind it, would I be ordering:

RP188 + RP212

or

RP61 + RP70 + RP4993

?

If you have the crystal knob you need: RP50 cap assembly, RP188 cam seal, RP212 ball for crystal knob and RP4993 spring & seals.

The RP61 cam seal and RP70 ball only work with the metal lever handle. The stem on the ball RP70 is basically round with a flat spot for the set screw to tighten up to.

The stem on the ball RP212 is like two triangles stuck together with female threads in the end of it for the handle screw. It has been awhile since I have seen one so I can't exactly remember the shape nor what you would call it.


Glad it helped.

This is what I have which is what you referred to as RP212.

It has a what I would call a tear drop shaped stem.

This is interesting...as I looked for these various parts (which typically comes in different combinations), I noticed these parts are made by several brands besides Delta. Danco makes them, which is not surprising, but Brasscraft also make them.

Here is the RP50 on Delta's web site. The nut looks different from the one I have, they must have updated the design, so it looks like the new one you can use a hex wrench to tighten/loosen it.

[www.deltafaucet.com]



In addition, I find this Brasscraft rebuilt kit very interesting.

[www.homedepot.com]



This kit includes two balls - I assume both the RP70 and the RP212 balls.

So this leads to my next question. Are both balls the same except for the attachment stem that connects to the handle? If so, does it mean I can remove my RP212 ball, replace it with a RP70 ball, and use a lever handle instead?

not exactly, but close !


there are two 'sets' of parts re: handle type - they also OPERATE differently due to the different packing cam

1) lever handle: RP17443 + RP61 (cam) + RP70 (ball)

2) crystal ball handle: RP17451 + RP188 (cam) + RP212 (ball)



I, personnally, prefer the ball type.

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



Edited 2 times.

"1) lever handle: RP17443 + RP61 (cam) + RP70 (ball)

2) crystal ball handle: RP17451 + RP188 (cam) + RP212 (ball)"

That's my understanding, the valve body is the same. So you if you start with a RP212 ball (what I have now), you add RP188, RP17451, then the knob handle. Or you put in a RP70 ball, with RP61, RP17443 plus the lever handle.

In that case, the Brasscraft "kit" actually provided TWO kits, in other words, someone may be able to use the second left over parts to convert a ball to a lever kit, if they wanted to...I don't know why it comes with O-rings though, since I do not see ANY o-rings in the parts diagram.

In addition, I know Danco makes all kinds of "compatible" parts to be used on popular brands, but I am surprised Brasscraft makes them. As a matter of fact, LASCO also make these repair kits:

[www.amazon.com]

Why are Danco. Lasco, Brasscraft all making this Delta repair kit, trim, handle etc? Are there many many of these made and installed all over the USA over the years?

universal kit will also service kitchen faucets (swivel spout 'o' rings)

easier to make different labels than different kits



==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638