I need to shift my toilet over a few inches. It was set in 1953 and it's cast iron. It's set right at the subfloor level. I can't find any PVC fittings to shift it sideways and keep it at the level of the existing waste pipe. I plan to cut the 3" cast iron pipe and connect 3" PVC pipe to it with a Fernco (Proflex) clamp. Opening the walls is not an option. How can I do what I need to do using PVC fittings? Photos are in this Dropbox gallery

[www.dropbox.com]



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MMoving it a "few" inches rather than "several" inches may be difficult to do with the limited fittings available to do it.

using the flange like this with a vent 90 glued to it is 'MAY' work.
can't really tell 'till you hold a fitting in place.


vent 90..


vent 90's also come male x female (street vent 90)

That is darn close to what I have bought so far. I have the 45 degree flange and a 60 degree elbow. I will need to modify the male/female joints to get the height reduced. I can see it will work, but I like the vent elbow idea better. My plumbing supply store told me that those were not for drain waste piping. I see HomeDepot says for DWV. What is your thought about that?

[www.dropbox.com]



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DWV is "type" of fitting. Vent 90s are NOT for DW, (drain) use.

(DWV) PVC 90deg Street Elbow (Hub x Spigot)






the 'street' (top) end goes into the flange




for a (non code compliant) cheat to obtain the smallest POSSIBLE dimension

(Vent) PVC 90deg Street Elbow (Hub x Spigot)



note the lack of any appreciable 'sweep' to direct the poop smoothly AWAY from the fixture

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

take a close look at the cast iron closet bend you have now. tell me if there is any difference in the 'sweep' of the 90 degree portion between it and the vent 90. the cast iron has been installed for 50-60 years and no problem.
I have used dozens of short turn 90 under toilets and never a problem. NEVER..

How do I add my photos to my postings so they appear in the text rather than you needing to click to a Dropbox? I will add a photo of the inside of the cast iron tomorrow morning.

I don't doubt anything you folks say. This is the Home Depot's description of the vent elbow:

"The NIBCO 3 in. PVC DWV 90 (1/4 Bend) Hub x Hub Vent Elbow. DWV is used for non pressurized sanitary system Drain, Waste, and Vent. There are 2 types of DWV plastic: ABS (black plastic) and PVC (white plastic). The sanitary drainage and vent piping are installed to remove waste water and water-borne wastes from the plumbing fixtures and appliances. DWV also provides a circulation of air within the drainage piping. ABS (black) and PVC (white) plastic pipe and fittings have identical uses."

[www.homedepot.com]

We've been in the house 12 years with the cast iron pipe and never had a problem with a toilet back up. I have to think the PVC vent elbow is less restrictive than the cast iron which if I recall turns 90 degrees instantly. Like I said, I will add photos of that tomorrow.

Thanks for all your knowledgeable help.

A 3" cast iron 1/16th bend is 4 1/2" long at the centerline. Add 1" on either side for shielded coupling and total length of straight pipe needed is 6 1/2". It appears you have that much available, if you just cut out 4 1/2" for the bend, will a 1/16th bend offset the existing flange enough?

post your image to any 'hosting site'
place the image's address between the brackets

eg. [ img ]https://i.postimg.cc/8zmmrzsW/pvc-ball-valve-050.jpg[ / img ]

removing the spaces inside the brackets results in a 'hot link'



==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I don't want to offset the EXISTING flange. To me it's too old and messed up, and should be changed. Here are photos of the existing flange. It looks like a 4" to 3" elbow that changes direction immediately like a vent 90. It appears I have a few options, none will be code compliant. I can use a PVC Spigot 45 Open Toilet Flange with a vent 90 elbow, or with a 60 degree "regular" elbow. If I do the latter, I will need to modify the male/female joint to reduce the overall height. The modification would entail shortening both ends so the two pieces fit together closer. It would work, but I have a feeling the vent elbow is a better way to go to ensure a good joint between the PVC Spigot 45 Open Toilet Flange and the vent 90.

Remove the CI all the way back into the hub.

You will reconnect into the hub using a rubber 'donut'.

Use a (Vent) PVC 90deg Street Elbow (Hub x Spigot) at the flange and offset horizontally as required going back into hub.

rubber 'donut':



? are you finished yet

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

What is the advantage of the donut over the rubber coupler? I understand the donut makes me replace all the horizontal pipe, but it also makes me need to disassemble the 3" cast pipe at the tee, and that concerns me should I have a problem doing that. And please explain how I would separate the 3" cast iron pipe from the tee?





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if, repeat if, you can make a clean cut AND the CI is in good shape - use the no-hub coupling to transition to PVC


but


if need be:

cut the CI branch flush to the hub

drill holes into the 'lead ring' - 3/16 bit, 1/2" c-c apart, 1" deep (through lead), sawzall notch in 'embedded' pipe - collapse inward with cape chisel - clean out hub - insert 'donut'


or


call in the pros

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

This sawzall blade by Diablo works really good for cast iron.....worth the money...

[www.diablotools.com]

MUCH more betterer for CI: [www.diablotools.com]


XYZ's diamond grit reciprocating saw blades are specifically designed for maximum performance. These blades deliver up to six times longer life than standard blades on the marketing today. A reinforced blade backing allows for straight and accurate cuts.

Perma-shield coating protects the blade from heat, gumming, and corrosion
Thin kerf design for fast cuts

Ideal For: Cast iron cutting

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I too find the new Diablo thick metal blades really nice, cuts faster than my Lenox diamond blades, I couldn't believe it.

The only thing about busting out the CI pipe, is there is limited length and width from the tee hub to the flange. I wonder if he has the room to "sit" a reciprocating saw into the recessed trench between the subfloor, and he has to turn the saw at different angles to make the slit cuts. It's going to be a real pain.

Then once he has it out he might have to clean off the buildup in the inside surface for the donut, which can be difficult to insert without lubrication, elbow grease and lots of swearing and cussing especially if the insert angle makes it difficult to apply compression.

The shielded no hub coupling is more DIY friendly.

I have the Diablo carbide blade already, and I have used it on other pipe. It's super fast. Helps to add some cutting oil. I have enough room to use the Sawzall between the joists to cut the 3" pipe, and I have an angle grinder with a diamond blade if I need that. I'm certain that in my situation using the shielded Proflex coupler is a less risky solution.

Thank you all for your knowledge and help. I will update this once I have done the work. That may be a few weeks. I go slow!



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I've had the same experience Sum has had with the Lennox diamond grit blades............Diablo carbide cuts a lot faster.

Bernabeu - I did not know Diablo made a diamond grit blade.....I'll try one next time.

Thanks for the information.



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Mr.K, when I need to make a nice straight perpendicular cut I tighten a large hose clamp around the pipe to start my cut to avoid the blade from dancing around, then it kind of serve as a guide as I cut deeper.

if you do want to go all the way to the tee and make the "sawzall notch in 'embedded' pipe" bernabeu was referring to then you need to sink the entire recipricating saw lengthwise down into the space and holding it at different orientation to make those slits around the pipe. I am not sure you have enough length between the tee and the flange to fit a saw unless a super compact one. Cutting it across the pipe is not an issue.



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I'm looking at the donut in the hub method just in case the horizontal 3" cast iron pipe is degraded too much. The OD of 3" PVC pipe is greater than the OD of 3" cast iron pipe by about 1/4". Is there enough room in the 3" TEE hub to insert the donut and then insert 3"PVC pipe?

I just spoke with Fernco and they confirmed that there is no donut that will work to join 3" PVC into a 3" cast iron hub.



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[missionrubber.com]

if you do go the donut route, it is not that difficult to remove the old pipe from the hub. drill a whole bunch of holes in the lead and the pipe practically falls out.
BUT, getting the donut and pipe into the hub is most times difficult. you need to clean the inside of the hub very well and you need to lube the donut and pipe. even then you need to drive the connection together with a block of wood and a hammer.
try using liquid dish washing soap as a lube. nice and slippery and when you are done your hands will be nice and clean and soft. hahaha

packy,


i usually use ordinary butter

need very very little

organic oil

slippery as all heck

non staining

easy to clean up

free from customer (usually)




==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

The Mission joint sealer will work. It's good to know I could do that if cutting my pipe midway fails. Thanks.

what about using bacon grease instead of butter? It smells better LOL.

My biggest issue with these donuts is fully inserting the PVC pipe. It's like once you fully seat the sleeve into the hub, then the PVC won't go in, and if you partly insert the sleeve to get the PVC started, there is no way to drive both in whether you tried to turn, twist, hammer whatever. I think the manufacturing tolerances of these CI fittings makes it very difficult, and with his subfloor cut so short and narrow it will be a problem applying leverage. Hammering too hard might just crack his hub.



Edited 1 times.

I cut the pipe and made the connection today. Things are very tight to the level of the floor, but it is going to work. Thanks everyone for your help.






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