So recently I bought a compression coupling by Legend.

LEGEND T-4325NL No Lead Bronze Pack Joint (IPS) x Pack Joint (CTS) Union
Item # 313-253NL

Here is the product link: [my.legendvalve.com]

I need this coupling in order to transition from 3/4" PVC to 3/4" copper underground. Yes I know I could do it with a PVC male adapter to a copper female adapter but I understand a compression coupling will eliminate any PVC threads which is prone to breaking with movement so I wanted to give this a try.

When I received the coupling on one end it says CTS. Fine.



The other end says "PEP", not "IPS". I was curious because it is the right model number. I called up LEGEND technical support to confirm it is 3/4" IPS and will fit a 3/4" PVC, they said it is "IPS" but it's designed to fit a SIDR7 polyethylene pipe on that end and it's "INSIDE DIAMETER" controlled and not quite the same as PVC. They said they don't have a coupling that's designed for "PVC IPS", all their stuff is "PEP IPS".

So there are different types of IPS? Inside diameter IPS and outside diameter IPS? I am so confused.

IPS, (there is only one standard), determines the O.D. of the pipe. The i.d. will vary according to its schedule wall thickness, and this holds true for almost ALL pipe types and materials. One exception is SDR sewer pipe which maintains the i.d., so it will line up with sch. 40 drain lines, and thus has a smaller o.d. which has to be compensated for.

hj, that's what I thought, but then why would they say in the product description:

LEGEND T-4325NL No Lead Bronze Pack Joint (IPS) x Pack Joint (CTS) Union

I ordered the 3/4" version so it should fit 3/4" IPS, whether it's iron pipe, PVC, brass nipple whatever.

But then they say it's "really designed" for 3/4" SIDR7 PEP and it wouldn't fit 3/4" PVC.

I just looked up Ferguson's web site on SIDR7 poly pipes and it says (note that it says "IPS" too):

EndoPoly 100 ft. x 3/4 in. SIDR 7 IPS HDPE Pressure Pipe

and it says the OD of this is 1.07".

If I look up 3/4" PVC and iron pipes their OD is 1.05". Very close.

My head is spinning.



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I have never heard of "PEP" when referring to pipe/tubing?

you'll be fine Sum.

Packy apparently PEP is PolyEthylene Pipe. When I looked it up there are different densities of this pipe which results in different ODs.

Ford Meter Box makes their compression couplings differentiating PEP and PVC/IPS.



Legend, on the other hand, advertises their couplings as "IPS" on their catalogs. The one I ordered is a 3/4" IPS X 3/4" CTS packed joint coupling.



But the actual product has a label of "PEP" on one end and "CTS" on the other. Their technical support confirmed that their IPS is meant to connect to SIDR7 PEP which is different from IPS.

you would think one being 1.07 and the other 1.05 there would be no real difference.I would never and have never put anything pvc for water underground(or above). Pex ,copper,lead,Brass and Galvy are the four fittings kept on the truck.I find sometimes you must fight to get them over some materials and some are a little loose but after tightening they all seam to work fine.You might also look into the new push and lock type brass fitting they have out now.

[www.youtube.com]



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NoHub, I tend to agree, I mean, if I put an emery cloth on a PVC pipe to clean it does it go from 1.05 to 1.04?

But then Ford Meter Box makes two different classes of fitting one for IPS(PVC) and one for PEP. I called them up and asked if these fittings are "somewhat" interchangeable due to the OD is almost the same, and they said no, the OD is slightly different. So that makes me a bit nervous. I can't really try it to see if it works either, once I made the cut I am committed to do the rest.

The PVC pipe is the existing line that runs from the meter to the house, then it switches to copper for a little bit, then switches to polybuthylene. So I am starting with PVC underground, going to replace all with copper. One day I might change out the PVC to the meter, but that would be a different project.

Do like I would. Put a female adapter on the copper, screw a brass nipple into it, and then use a IPs x IPS coupling "of some kind" to join them.

They"re great fittings to have on the truck.

hj, yes I remember that thread where I was asking for the best approach to join a 3/4" SCH 40 PVC to 3/4" copper tubing where you said the best way is not to use a PVC threaded joint but instead use an IPS compression coupling from PVC to a brass nipple, then go from the brass nipple to copper. Packy also recommended these types of coupling which are designed for underground burial applications.



That started me on a path to look into these service line fittings, and the manufacturers - Ford Meter Box and Legend etc...and after looking at their product catalogs I saw other variations that transitions from PVC/IPS to CTS, from PVC/IPS to galvanized etc...so I thought, I can actually use one compression fitting, to transition from PVC to CTS, on the copper tubing side, I just use a piece of soft tubing to bend a 90 until above grade, and that will eliminate all underground joints after it.

Only thing is, I am not having much luck understanding what I was looking at. I thought Iron Pipe Size IPS is a standard thing, but then Ford Meter Box makes couplings specifically designed to take PVC, polyethylene PEP) and galvanized. I thought all of those are IPS as far as OD is concerned, so I find it curious that Ford makes a coupling specific for each, calling them up their tech told me no they are slightly different and I should not try to mix the usage. I did wonder if 1.05" and 1.07" would make a appreciable difference, but these are expensive fittings so I wanted to make sure.

The other issue which is a bigger issue, is it even if I don't insist on the PVC to CTS coupling, and just the PVC to PVC, I could get a hold of one anyways. It appears these service line fittings are not generally available in plumbing supply stores. In my area only two companies (Ferguson and Core & Main) are authorized distributors of Ford Meter Box. So I called up Ferguson plumbing, who then told me I need to talk to Ferguson Waterworks. They don't have it, they have nothing smaller than 1". I then called Core & Main, they don't have it either. When I asked if I can special order it, they asked how many I need. I said one. They laughed on the phone and said they have a minimum like 5 for any special order. I did find one branch of Core & Main that has some, but they are way out there with two hour drive one way for me and they won't ship it to me for such a small order. So that was an interesting journey. I then started to look on ebay, and there are some, problem is those for sale on ebay are "liquidators" who might have gotten some stock from places that went out of business and so they are selling stuff "as is" and most of the time they don't know what they are selling. For example they may say it's 3/4" and when you ask them if it's CTS or PVC they don't know or the model number they don't know either LOL.

If you think other IPS compression couplings would work, I can try and look for those. Certainly you don't mean those PVC compression couplings or unions that repairs 3/4" PVC irrigation lines available at home depot can be used right?

A.Y. McDonald No-Lead 74758-22-55 3/4" CTS x 3/4" IP Mac-Pak Compression Union

I often use those, or metal ones with "draw bolts" to make the compression seal at the end.

Sum,


2/100 inch is negligible albeit measurable


don't worry, be happy, use fitting, tighten it up and relax


if you REALLY want to be sure simply do not back-fill for 48 hours

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Or, if really paranoid, maybe 48 days. I, and most plumbers, would have had this done in about 45 minutes, without all the drama of worrying about needing a micrometer to measure the pipe and fittings.



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Poke....Poke....Poke, I think it's dead.

Haven't you ever heard the saying, "Don't POKE a sleeping tiger?"

no, you may not .....

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

OK I think I have enough information to make my joint now LOL.

But my second question, which is about IPS, previously I thought PVC, galvanized iron, polyethylene are all IPS, but now, I think there are slight differences between them, enough differences for Ford Meter Box to make specific connection options in their service line fittings for each. That puzzles me, still.

I would NEVER give it a second thought. Let them lose sleep over t=it wondering what you are going to use them for.

In that case, I shall be posting an updated picture of my project within 48 days!

Okay, but be sure to examine it thoroughly every day, and maybe several times a day, until then.

Of course!