I have an older thread that discussed my attempt to try to fix a leak at the outlet side of a pool pump.

[www.plbg.com]



My goal was to fix the leak, but also elevate the pump off the ground (it was half buried in soil and leaves), and also improve the serviceability of the pump and connecting manifold. The tricky part was there was no bare pipe between the pump and the manifold that I can use to attach a new fitting.



Thanks for all those who made suggestions, especially hj who suggested I spin the pump off the threaded PVC fitting, and LI Guy who suggested I uncouple the heavy motor from the plastic strainer housing, which made the job quite a bit easier.

Of course, I ran into complications. Turned out the pump was sitting on a concrete slab, it's just that the slab is now 4" lower than the ground and tree roots have cracked and taken over the slab into a mess. With the slab in the way I was not able to rotate the housing for more than 20 degrees. I end up taking out a rotary hammer and broke off chunks of the slab to get the room I need to spin the housing off. Once it's off the rest went as planned.

I put a female adapter onto the male adapter from the manifold, a street 90, followed by a PVC union, another street 90, then a male adapter into the pump inlet. I also raised the pump, as well as the filter housing.

At the pump outlet, a male adapter, a PVC union, then several elbows to take it into the pool filter housing.







After that I was able to disconnect the pump from the rest of the piping if I ever need to service it or to replace the union o-rings.



I waited a day to test the pump and no leak at any of the new piping.

However...nothing ever go as planned.



Edited 1 times.

Once I turned the pump back on all of my new piping no leaks, but I noticed a new leak that wasn't leaking before.

It is located to the right side of the manifold.



The part I overlaid with red and green lines. It is that green "loop" coming off the red pipes.



I am not even sure what is the purpose of this loop. After the filter the pipe goes to a two way valve, one to the pool and one to the spa. Both the pool and spa pipes run down into the ground, but for some reason there is a tee on each pipe that has a loop with a shutoff and a check valve on it. The shutoff is closed.



A closer look I saw some attempted repairs on that leaking joint. Not sure what was used, but it's leaking now.

I only have two places on this loop with bare pipes, and it's been sprayed painted over. The bare pipes are about 1" in length. Is that enough insert for a good joint under pressure?



If I am to repair this with a similar configuration, I would have to do the "U" shaped (one short piece of pipe with two 90 elbows) at the same time, two joints and can't rotate the joints to spread the cement. Is there a way to avoid that?



Edited 2 times.

Nice job on the pump, what you created is a routine install for pools up north, where part of the winterizing process is to remove and store the pump/strainer for the winter.

It looks like the current area of interest contains a bypass loop that cross connects the pool and spa when that valve is open, but with a check valve so that spa water can flow to the pool but not vice versa. Guessing maybe the spa is heated and the pool is not, so that hotter spa water can be used to warm the pool without cooler pool water getting back into the spa?

I will say your experience is not unusual, during my 15 years of pool ownership keeping the system leak-free was always a challenge.

PS don't forget to lube those O rings if you ever want to get those unions apart...pool chemicals take their toll without lube in there.

- - - - - - -

Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

I lubed up the o-rings before tightening on the union.

I am glad I put in the unions, because if I need to replace the o-rings I can. Also, I had a leak at the pump outlet again. A very slow leak. After the pump started up again I wiped down all the water on all fittings and pipes, and I observed no leak. The next day I saw some water from the outlet connection again. So I stopped the pump, took apart the unions, and tightened the male adapter one full revolution and since then no more leak.

Still haven't fixed the third leak. Even the pool guy didn't know the purpose of that loop. He thought it looks like a discharge line...which I kind of agree, with a ball valve, then a check valve, but it loops the spa line, unless it was reconfigured at some point and we are seeing the combination of old and new stuff.

Finally, I noticed there is a thing on the return line to the pool. It looks like a knob thing similar to what is on the filter housing to bleed air. Is that what it is? The wire that is in the middle is actually a romex cable.

an abandoned sensor for an automatic chemical feeder !?

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I am thinking in order to fix the present leak, and no knowing what that loop is for, and knowing from the last owner of 8 years he has never opened that check valve once and he doesn't know what it's purpose is. I think I will not put the loop back in.



The leak is at the check valve. So if I make a cut before and after the check valve, and install a new checl valve, turn it to the closed position (as it has been all this time), there would be no leak coming from the pool side. The other side of the loop is a check valve, it's supposed to prevent water coming back into the direction of the ball valve, so if that's still working, it should not leak from that side either. That way I should be able to stop the leak, but not having to put the loop back in until I figure out it's purpose - and hopefully redo it better and correctly.

Is the spa part of the pool? The "loop" is to connect the two when the three way valve is in a certain position, possibly to divert part of the flow. The direction of the check valve would determine when it was to be used. For now, I would just cut both sides, (to the right of the valve, which is not a "check valve", and to the right of the upper left hand elbow), glue a coupling and piece of pipe with a cap on both ends and forget about it. The insert could be a "lot of things" depending on what is connected to the electrical fitting.



Edited 1 times.

One side of the loop connected to the pool line has a ball valve.

On the other side of the loop connecting to the spa is a check valve and I showed the flow direction arrow on the picture above.

The pool and spa are not together, the spa is about 10 feet away.

If I do make the cut in the middle of the loop, I know I can cap the pool side tee where the ball valve is. Do I need to do anything to the other side? Shouldn't the check valve act like a cap and prevent water from reversing anyways? Is a cap there necessary?

Also, looks like these pipes are sprayed painted, I would need to really sand it down on all sides. I hope it won't wear to much of the PVC and not make a good joint.



Edited 1 times.

OK so I cut the pipes. This is what I am thinking of doing. I haven't actually apply the primer and cement yet (because I ran into another problem).



The pool side, I am going to put in a ball valve like before, and turn it into the OFF position, like before. It will just terminate there.

The spa side, before the check valve, I am adding a coupling, a short piece of pipe, a male adapter, and a threaded cap. That will also terminate it there.

Doing it this way will allow me to open both sides if necessary for reasons I don't know.



Thoughts?

Now, I have a problem. Because those pipes were spray painted on, and there are other residue on the surface. It took me quite some time to sand the pipe clean with emery cloth. When I went to fit a coupling over it, it went in too easy with zero resistance. I think I sanded too much of it now it's loose. I no longer think I will be able to make a solid joint. Any ideas? If I try to do it and it leaks, I have no bare pipe to redo it. I have to remove the entire tee after the check valve and all that is painted as well.



Should I try to cement a coupling to it, or should I use a 1.5" internal coupling since the ID hasn't been messed with?

By the way, why do primer cans leak no matter how tight you close the lid?



Edited 2 times.

internal coupling


... because they can ...


? get it ? can=able, can=container

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

hahaha bernabeu because they "can" LOL.

OK your comment on internal coupling, are you laughing at my thought of using an internal coupling or are you agreeing with it?

Using an internal coupling will restrict it's ID which I don't like. On the suction side all the piping are 2" into the pump and filter, after the filter everything reduces to 1.5" to return to the pool and spa. I think the internal coupling further reduces it to 1" effectively. The only thing is I don't even know what this loop is for, but it looks like it is deliberate (with a ball valve and a check valve), to me it seems like a discharge line, may be they repurposed it later for a spa, or like LI Guy said may be to run hot spa water into the pool to warm it up? But it wouldn't really do much with a small spa and a large pool.

Is there any other way to make this joint besides using an internal coupling? I don't think using a liberal amount of cement would help.

I am inclined to use an internal coupling because I am effectively terminating this anyways - or until I figure out what it's for.

If you are REALLY concerned, then use a rubber cap with a hose clamp to close it off. You are really obsessing about something you have NEVER used and probably never will.

hj a rubber cap with a hose clamp will be able to hold the joint? I thought those are only intended for drain (non pressure) applications. Yes I am really concerned because with how easy the coupling goes on the sanded pipe, it's actually very loose. Normally I could not get a coupling on a pipe and get it to go in more than an inch.

internal coupling is a GOOD repair in this case

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Sum, how much pressure do you think is on that pipe? Glue the OD coupling on it with a heavy body glue. If it leaks. cut it out and use the inside coupling.

steve, the pressure gauge on the filter shows 15 PSI. That is before all these leaks were fixed. I expect it to notch up a bit with no leak.

You are right if the regular coupling leaks I can still use internal coupling...HOWEVER, the internal coupling seems very loose. I think may be they used thinner pipes not SCH40. I end up using the outside coupling, don't know if it leaks, will give it a full day to cure before I pressurize.





Crossing my fingers.



Edited 1 times.

You should run about 15psi when the filter is clean, as the filter approaches needing backwashing (sand) or new material (DE) the pressure will go up to the 20-22 psi range.

- - - - - - -

Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

I tested for leak today and the good news is there is no leak (that I can tell).

The bad news is the pool pump no longer primes. After a whole hour it's just sucking air. It has been fine before even with the leak at the pump outlet, at the filter drain, and at the mystery loop that I have no idea what it's for.

Now that I cut out that loop and terminated each side of the loop the pump no longer primes. But it doesn't make sense because the leaking ball valve I cut out has always been in a closed position. So terminated it with a cap should not have introduced a different behavior.

Could terminating those pipes caused air pockets to be trapped at the dead ends and makes it difficult for the pipes and pump to prime?

Very unlikely, in fact almost, (if not completely), impossible.

Usually if the pump won't prime it means there is an air leak somewhere on the suction side. #1 cause is the gasket around the lid on the strainer basket right before the pump. Try removing the strainer lid, insert a garden hose and let the the basket fill and let as much water run down the intake pipe as you can. Quickly reinstall strainer lid and fire the pump and see if it primes then.

- - - - - - -

Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

I got it to prime after disconnecting the two unions and reconnecting them as tight as I can. May be the first time it wasn't as tight as can be. This is a bit odd since these unions seal by o-rings and I thought they don't need "gorilla strength" to tighten.

Once I redo the unions, filled the housing with water and turned the pump back on it primed fine.