I am in the process of adding a laundry drain into an existing 2" drain from the kitchen.

This is what I have exposed so far.



The 2" laundry drain will be coming from the far building corner and ties in at the bottom of the picture. Something like this.



The reason I did just add a combo to the kitchen line coming out of the wall is because I wanted to keep a slope on the laundry drain and thus the kitchen drain will need to tie in further down where the wye can be rolled up to meet it.

My original plan was to cut the kitchen 2" cast iron pipe as it comes out of the wall where it connects to the hub. From there switch to 2" PVC.



But after I exposed more of the pipe and cleaned up the dirt around it, I noticed I am looking at the end of a CI quarter bend - see the curve?





So now if I make the cut just a hair upstream of the hub, does that give me enough straight section of the CI elbow to connect to PVC with a heavy duty shielded mission coupling?

Or the entire elbow is curved up till the hub? If so, then I better remove the hub and expose the spigot end of this elbow? How would I do that? Can I cut the rest of the piping off, leaving just the hub then use a chisel and hammer to "tap" the hub out?

I know I can just cut a few inches downstream of the hub and use that, but I would prefer to get rid of that fitting if possible.

My options are:

(A) Cut it just upstream of the hub and hope there is enough straight pipe there for a watertight connection.

( Get rid of the hub and expose the spigot end of the elbow and use that.

(C) Cut it downstream of the hub and leave the hub alone.

I would prefer to do ( if that's easy.



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Cut the 90* next to the hub. The band will seal(after cleaning OD of the 90*).

as steve says, cut close to the hub. there should be plenty of room for the mission coupling. even if you use a 4 band type.
if you do decide to smash the hub, use 2 hammers. one below to keep the hub from moving.
even after removing the hub, there will be a raised bump on the end of the pipe.

Packy and steve, I think I will cut it downstream of the hub first, so all I have is the hub. Then I will try to remove the hub if I can. If I can't, then I will re-cut the elbow at the hub and make the connection there instead.

About freeing the hub from the end of the elbow...do I have to smash it? If I do how do I smash the hub but risk not smashing the pipe inside of it?

It's held together by lead right, lead is soft right. If I only have a cut stub of hub on it, can I put a plumbers wrench on the hub and twist it off or try to turn it back and forth a little and wiggle it out?

Or better to use a grinder to cut the length of the hub say 80% then try to chisel it open?

I would listen to Steve and Packy. If you start messing with the hub and crack the elbow trying to get the hub off, plan B may not be an option if you crack the elbow further upstream than the edge of the hub. You're making the job more complicated than it needs to be.

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Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

As packy stated, the 90* will have a raised ring on the end of it that will need to be removed before using the band coupling. Save the extra cuts and cut the 90* next to the hub. To remove the hub, you should cut all the way through it, parallel with the flow, not just 80%. Limit the hammering/chiseling.

I won't be doing anything to cause any accidental crack. I will only be wasting a bit of time but no way I would risk further damages. No worries.

OK so I went ahead and made two cuts. I made the cut just downstream of the hub.



Good news is there is plenty of good cast iron left.



On the hub, I didn't smash it with a hammer. Instead I took an angle grinder with a diamond blade and cut into the hub longitudinally until I get close to cutting through the cast iron, I know there is lead after that.





Once I cut this seam, I jammed a pry bar into the seam and applied a bit of pressure and the hub broke off.

Just as Packy and steve said there is a lip at the end. Also I had to remove a string of lead and something that looks like fibers - oakum?



So I cut that lip off.



So yes it's easier to just cut it at the hub, but then I have never seen that lip at the end before, nor have I seen oakum and lead, so it's worth the extra 15 minutes.

What is the purpose of the lip? Is it to hold the oakum in place?

Sum,

Unrelated question - is that a vintage porter cable reciprocating saw in the photo??
I kinda see the silver and black colors.

If so that’s cool it’s still running. That brand used to be solid before it went offshore.

yes Palm329, it is a Porter Cable recip. saw. I typically use a cordless Milwaukee nowadays, but with thick cast metal I want the extra juice so I took out my corded PC.

That was when PC was a good tool brand, before Stanley Black & Decker turned it into crap!

sum, I have always assumed the lip is there to keep the oakum from going in too far when packing the joint.
although I would venture a guess that the are as many joint made with bald pipe as there are with fittings containing a lip.
1) you pack oakum
2) you pour molten lead
3) you caulk the lead when it has solidified.
as for power tools, I watched a very interesting video on youtube about who owns which power tool companies.

I thought bald pipes came along later when no hub coupling were common? I didn't know the lipped and bald pipes are available then. I also didn't know the lip is almost an inch wide.

so I need a wire wheel to clean up the cut end, and smooth off the edge so it won't nip the connector coupling.

Do I need some sort of grease or water based lubricant to help make the seal between old cast iron and the neoprene or the cranking down of the shielded clamp is enough?

That's what I would assume too, Packy, the lip is there to keep you from packing oakum into the pipe. So a length of pipe is manufactured with a lip on the male end, what about when you have to cut to length? Did they make a sleeve or ferrule you could slip on to cut pipe or did you just pack it bald?

This is all interesting to me, having just removed our CI soil stack last year, God forbid there was an explosion that leveled the house that pipe would survive in one piece LOL....those lead joints were solid!

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Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

I doubt it would make a difference having the lip or not to pack oakum. The real pros would do it the same way not to rely on that lip anyways. May be you roll the oakum together then compress it a bit before pushing it into the joint tight.

most fittings have the lip on the end. pipe does not.
furthermore, (way back when) we used to buy double hub lengths of pipe to keep the wasted ends to a minimum.

Curious, could I have removed the hubbed end much easier using a torch to melt the lead?

I still haven't seen the mythical upside down lead joint.

yeah, especially since you were outside. it makes a bunch of smelly smoke.
if you did melt off the hub, you would still have the lip to deal with so are better off just sawzalling the pipe right close to the hub.

OK that makes sense. I just wanted to preserve as much of the straight section of the elbow as possible. Looks like by doing what I did I gained one inch LOL.

I found some corrosion around the pipe's last two inches or so that a wire wheel on a drill or aluminum oxide sand cloth would not take off. So I took out an angle grinder to smooth the outside of the pipe. As the angle grinder grind away it blasted dirt in my face. Now I am ready to make the connections.

How flexible are 2" sch40 PVC pipes? I wonder if I can flex it 5 degrees over 20 feet?

5 degrees over 20 feet in the hot FL sunshine is fine.
plus, the sleeved rubber coupling will also give a little with no problem.

I got the kitchen line reconnected. Now I need to extend the inlet of the WYE further up and around the corner.





Should I put some sort of butter/bacon grease/petroleum jelly or whatever :LOL: to seal the neoprene to the outside of the CI better?



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baby steps.

nice job, sum

Better plumbing than some "Professional" plumbers I have seen lately. You get a "10" Sum.

PlumbCat TM 2003


Plumbermandan



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Thanks Packy & PlumberManDan! It's not progressing as fast as I like because of tree roots. They seem to make a habit of running along the foundation wall. I don't remember how many larger roots about the same diameter as my elbow I have to cut out.

Finally turned the corner today.





That fence post has a chunk of concrete the size of water melon around it. I had to chip out enough of the concrete to pass the pipe through.

Finally got close to the existing laundry line that I am going to connect to.



I put a level on the top of pipe and the ground, and the pipe is 1/2" lower. So this is the slope I am going with.



On these heavy duty no hub couplings the nuts are to be tightened to 80#in. I have a torque wrench that will torque to 60#in but that's for standard couplings with 5/16" nuts these are 3/8" nuts. Right now I have them hand tight but no idea how tight. How important is it to torque these nuts to 80#in?





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sum, I tighten the 60 in pound screws with my 60 in pound wrench and then using my drill driver with various settings. I fool around until I get the drill driver to stop turning at the 60 inch pound tightness.
usually my Ryobi 18V drill driver needs to be set at #22 on the chuck.
so, if #22 is 60 then put a 3/8 socket adapter with a 3/8 socket into the chuck, turn the setting up a couple of numbers and you should be close enough to 80 inch pounds to make a tight, leak free joint

Packy, great idea! That should work! Bravo!!!

It should seal good. I already put a grinder on the ends of the CI pipe and smooth off the last three inches so no bumps all the way around. Got sand blasted all over my face with the grinder sitting low to the ground with sand all around!



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so to finish this off, I need to take apart the existing contraption that runs to the gravel pit.

this is where I am at now with the new horizontal drain coming to about 18" from the existing drain.









My plan is to reuse the existing hole the trap arm is coming out. Instead of turning left to connect to the sanitary tee branch I will pipe it such that the sanitary tee branch is right AT that hole facing the inside. Under that sanitary tee will be a cleanout fitting, then the 90 elbow that connects to the new pipe. Like this:



On top of the sanitary tee I will put a 2" vent. When it goes up it will run into the electrical junction box.



So I am going to put in two 22.5 degree elbows to offset the pipe to (1) avoid the junction box and to come out a little from the wall to be flushed with the drop edge.

Please let me know if you see bad ideas.

just leave the existing vent and put an upside down "Y" with a street 45 looking down at the new sanitarty tee. put it 6 inches higher than the top of the washer standpipe.

oops packy too late I demoed all the old piping that leads to the 3" line to the gravel pit this weekend. I haven't had a chance to plumb in the new pipes yet. I wonder if I could use 1.5" vent above the sanitary tee.

1.5" vent is all that's needed.

I had some back pain this week so didn't do much.

Finally went over this morning and put in a few more pieces. Now I have the lower sanitary tee glued in. The rest above it haven't been glued. I finished the p-trap and standpipe on the inside.

The street sanitary tee hasn't been glued in. Initially I had a CO fitting there, but thought a santee may be better for directing a snake down. Then I thought, why not a wye? I have all three fittings, along with a female adapter for the CO cover. Which one should I use?




All I have left is the vent to go up which is the easiest part. I open the washing machine valve and stuck the hose down the pipe and ran hot water for 15 minutes no leak in any joint including the no-hubs way downstream.

OK finally I am finished.

This took a while, almost three weeks have gone by - an hour here and hour there. I took a week of due to back pain. Most of the time is spent not running pipes but digging and cutting out the tree roots in the trench.

At the end I was able to maintain a slope of about 1/6" per foot.













The one mistake I made was when I drilled the hole from the outside for the sanitary tee branch I forgot to include the sole plate thickness and was off by an inch. I had planned on the p-trap and standpipe being inside the stud bay, but I was off and so was forced to shift the p-trap.

Now that I have the perimeter excavated I am going to apply some sub termite treatment before I backfill.

Thank you Sum for sharing all of this with us.

Also, I hope you have no more backpain.

Thanks vic! Too much digging and bending over does that to me. I need to stand upright more LOL.