I have a Whirlpool electric water heater Model# E50R6-45 100. I lost my hot water today. The first think I checked was the upper thermostat with ECO reset button. The wires that are attached to the #4 second from top right side terminal are burned. One is a blue wire that leads to the upper heating element. The other is a red wire that leads somewhere into the water heater.

The lower T-Stat terminals are not burned. And both upper and lower heating element terminals are not burned either

There is an electrical burning smell and the ECO button was tripped. The plastic cover was also melted. I cut off power to the water heater. I had a hot water loss about a year ago also on this same water heater. No burned wires in that case. I replaced the upper T-Stat and both heating elements and it returned to normal function.

I'm starting to think there is a problem with the water heater itself. What do you think? Photo link attached


[i434.photobucket.com]

There is/was a loose wire, and the higher resistance caused heat that melted the insulation and also caused the reset to trip.

Where would the loose wire be? I wired all the thermostats and heating elements myself. And I was very careful when I did it and double checked my work. Could I ask a few questions?

If I cut away the damaged part of the burned wire, I won't have enough left to reconnect to the thermostat.
I looked at a wiring diagram on the manual. It looks like that one burned wire trails down into the tank wall and connects to the lower heating element.

1. Do I just replace that entire length of wire? If so, what gauge? How will I extend it down into the tank wall?

2. Do I just replace the upper T-Stat with the burned terminal, and keep the heating elements and lower T-Stat?

3. Could the problem be internal with the water heater itself? Does this one have a circuit board?

Both upper screws seem to be "discolored" so it could be either or both.
1. You MAY be able to pull some wire up from the lower element if the wire is not imbedded in the insulation. Otherwise you have to try to thread the wire down, which can be difficult since there is little room for it.
2. YES
3. NO and NO



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Thanks HJ.

1. Could this be caused by a failing water heater circuit breaker in the power box outside the house?

2. What gauge wire would I need for both burned wires?

I'll have to look at this again tonight after work. I guess I am wondering why the two wires burned if I connected them properly to the terminal screws.

1. No. It has to be in the water heater wires themselves. Otherwise the wires at the CB would have melted/burnt.
2. It depends on the wires. The original will be 12 ga. with a higher grade insulation. (manufacturers do not have to follow the wire size/wattage recommended to consumers.)



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Ok. In the past I had some trouble pulling the wires in with pliers to screw under the terminal. The working space is too tight in there. Ridiculous. This should probably be a warranty issue since I already had trouble with this in the past.

Is it ok if I splice in a section of wire to replace the burned part? That would be better than trying to extend wire behind the tank wall. Then I could add some slack to the wire. Can I just crimp with barrel connector? That gauge wire might be a bit heavy for a Twist-On Connector.



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The only "warranty issue" you would get would be a new upper thermostat. Since you replaced the thermostat, they would assume YOU caused the problem.

Maybe. But it's documented that I already had problems with it before. And they told me over the phone they don't mind if I replace T-Stats and elements.

So ok to crimp with barrel connector?



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It is a "heavy load" so if not, IT will also melt.

Sorry. Not sure I understand HJ. Are you saying it will melt if I DON'T crimp.

The insulation WILL fail if it does not crimp properly because the connection will overheat just like the thermostat did. The wire and connection will be carrying almost 20 amps of current.



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Understood. Thanks

In your photo, on the right side of the terminal, are both the wires connected to the lower screw? That’s what it appears, and I don’t see any wire connected to the upper screw. But, I do see some burned area on the insulation which appears to show there used to be a wire to the upper screw.

The worst arcing appears to be at that bottom right screw.

An overcurrent should have tripped a breaker or fuse before the wire melted, I would have thought. Maybe you damaged the wire when manipulating it previously with the pliers?

Those two wires go to the upper and lower thermostats.

Is that heater hooked to a 240V breaker? Did the second 120V lead (top right) burn off? Is it even possible to wire it 120 and use the combined resistance of both elements and in this case the wiring also, lacking a neutral? I can't wrap my head around that one.

Both wires were connected to the lower screw. They both broke free of the terminals when they burned.

If you zoom the photo, you'll see the wire still connected to the upper right terminal. The circuit breaker didn't trip.

I don't understand where the loose or damaged wire occurred. I was very careful and triple-checked my work.

Maybe I did cause some hidden damage that was hard to see with the naked eye. One of the bad wires can be easily replaced since it goes from the burned terminal a few inches down to the upper element. I don't know what I'll do about the red wire. It extends down along the inside tank wall to the lower element.

And you can't pull it through from one end or the other. It feels like it's stapled or fastened to the inside tank wall. HJ says I could try crimping a section of good wire in the panel area. But it might not hold. I could also try snaking the wire down along the inside tank. But like HJ says, it might be difficult.

To answer Paul's question. The water heater circuit breaker is a double-pole 240 Volt one.

The two burned wires in the photo led to the upper and lower elements. Not the thermostats. The manual has a diagram.



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Can you post a clear photo of the wiring diagram you mentioned?

I meant the elements, just typed the wrong words.

Thanks for clarifying, HJ.

Paul. I don't feel comfortable altering the wiring scheme. But I will be glad to post the diagram tonight after work if you still think it will be helpful

ALL residential heaters use the same diagram, unless they are modified for some local situation, such as special evening rates for the lower element.

Ok. And I made sure my wiring matched the diagram too. I'll skip sending the diagram then.

proper wiring:



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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

With one caveat. There are a few thermostats with the terminals T2 and T4 reversed and if they are wired in the conventional way, the "upper" terminal will activate the lower thermostat until the upper one is satisfied and then it will shift power to the upper element which will then run "forever" or until the ECO kicks out. I have only seen one of these, but they are out there.



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? they will still be T2 and T4 however ?

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I'm going to make a warranty claim on the entire water heater. The store expressed a willingness to provide a suitable replacement even if it is discontinued. They want me to talk to the manufacturer first. I'll save this discussion and follow up.

yes, you just have to read the numbers on the 'stat. Or, better yet, follow the picture that comes with the t'stat.



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thanx



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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Thanks for that diagram. Such a basic design. Not much to cause arcing other than a damaged wire or a loose connection, like hj said. I guess a shorted element could cause too much current draw which might damage the wire or terminal via overheating?

By any chance is that fed off of an old Federal Pacific panel? I've had problems with those old red breakers not popping off when they should.

A shorted element, depending on WHERE it is shorted, would either cause the water to overheat and trip the ECO, or trip the circuit breaker, but NOT "overload" the thermostat or its connections.

The wiring diagram bernebeu posted with color-coding matches the wiring on mine. The manufacturer agreed to a complete warranty replacement of the water heater.

The responses seem to indicate that this was not caused by the circuit breaker. But I tested it anyway with a multi meter and it came back normal. I'm going to install the new WH this weekend as long as they have it in stock.

For a plumbing website, you guys were also willing to share your knowledge in related electrical which I found very helpful. I'll report back when done. Thanks



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Just wanted to let everyone know I installed the new water heater this weekend and it is up and running. I saved this discussion since it is educational. Thanks, everyone.



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Hey all,
new to this forum - I wanted to thank you for leaving the thread up (for educational purposes) - because it served me well with my own very recent wire overheat issues.


Cheers!