I'm putting in a new tile floor over Weyerhauser subfloor and do not have the toilet flange installed yet. What is the best placement for the toilet flange- on top of the cement board, or on top of the tile?

Also, I saw a video where someone was recommending using regular pvc cement (not heavyy duty) and no primer because this would make it possible to remove the flange for a future remodel without having to cut out the drain pipe. Does this make sense? I did not think it was possible to remove PVC glued joints once they set up.

Any thoughts on Souix Chief push tite flanges? maybe this is the most future friendly?

Thanks



Edited 2 times.

If that would let the flange come off, then it could also come loose in the normal course of events.

there are times when DIY is OK and there are times with a pro should be called in.

all too common as a service plumber do I see improperly installed flanges that lead to rocking toilets, leaks into the subfloor, too close to the back wall, and more.

the flange mounts ON TOP OF the finished floor and is installed AFTER the floor is finished

a 'capped' stub up of the pipe is left in place

the floor is laid 'around' said pipe

the plumber installs the flange ON TOP OF the floor, securing it properly to the sub floor


The mounting of the flange is a code requirement.

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Like Bern says, the flange should be mounted on top of the Tile. Just make sure that it is secured to the floor with Brass or Stainless Screws or bolts and nuts. Make sure the Bowl does not rock. Use nylon Shims to fill gaps so Bowl is solid and Use Silicon Sealant to keep water from going under the Bowl. Be sure the area is dry before applying silicon and let the Silicon Dry for 24 hours for best results. Follow these instructions to the letter and you can sleep at night. Good luck

- - - - -

L. Sanders SR

Definitely on top of the tile.

I like the push tights. Leave the pipe stubbed out of the floor. Cut it flush once the tile is
Set. Insert the push tight and secure to floor.

Make sure the closet arm is secured and braced under the floor.

If you can, cut your stub out about a quarter inch below the floor. I use a dremel. The push tight has a bevel on the bottom where it sits on the floor. If the stub is a little high it won't seat.

the flange without the bevel is called a flush-fit flange.
the bottom looks like this..
the stub can then be cut flush to finish floor.

Thanks guys for all the tips. There was a lot of debate elsewhere on the net regarding flange placement, so it nice that everyone agrees, on top of the tile is the way to go. I mortared and screwed the cement board today and will start my tile layout tomorrow.

Is the flush-fit flange the same as a push-tight in that it is not PVC glued to the 4" drain pipe? Are the pros generally in agreement that an unglued flange is a legit, generally problem-free install and is likely a good idea considering the possibility of future remodels?

sponsor has flush fit that are push fit as well..

curious, what future remodel would benefit from being able to easily remove the toilet flange?

If you are changing the location of the actual toilet, then the drain pipe would need to be modified and relocated and being able to remove the toilet flange easily buys you nothing.

If you are just changing the toilet itself, you shouldn't have to change or mess with the existing toilet flange besides changing out the toilet bolts unless the flange falls apart.

If you are worried about the flange falling apart and want to make it easy to replace the toilet flange itself you can use a push-tite or equivalent. There are also toilet flanges that fits over the outside of the pipes and those that fits inside of the pipes. The outside fit ones you would leave a bit of room around the pipe when you install the subfloor so the sleeve around the pipe would fit.

One thing to consider is the design of the toilet. I don't like the really low flush toilets (1.2 or less) instead go with the 1.6 gallon flush for best results. You use a little more water but you clear the line much better. Sometimes the ABS or PVC lines are plumbed flat and the debris builds up and can lead to a stoppage. Take care.

- - - - -

L. Sanders SR

Quote
sum
curious, what future remodel would benefit from being able to easily remove the toilet flange?

Re-tiling the floor. If for some reason you wanted to re-tile you you could easily remove the closet flange, re-tile, and then re-install. It's much more difficult to tile around a flange that's in place. Of course this begs the question of how often do you re-tile a bathroom floor?

- - - - - - -

Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

Quote

..... It's much more difficult to tile around a flange that's in place. .....

?AROUND? You mean UNDER, do you not !?


The flange MUST, by code and good practice, sit ON TOP OF the finished floor.


HOWEVER


N E V E R S T O P I M P R O V I N G

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

quote; Are the pros generally in agreement that an unglued flange is a legit, generally problem-free install and is likely a good idea considering the possibility of future remodels

I am a "pro" and I NEVER use an "unglued" flange. I fact, I seldom use one that goes inside the pipe except for a repair.

I also agree that hj's advice is right on. Use SS or Brass bolts or Screws to secure it to the floor. If the sub floor is concrete use Quick bolts or Drop in Anchors. Good luck

- - - - -

L. Sanders SR

hj, when running a toilet drain that is below a cement floor what is wrong with running 3 inch for the toilet drain and finish with w 4 x 3 90deg ? stub up with a 4 inch nipple and cut it flush at finish. then insert a 4 x 3 flush fit flange glued inside the 4 inch pipe ?
..

Yes, under the flange....

- - - - - - -

Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

Packy it is common to install the way you describe. Just reach down inside the closet bend and make sure it does not have movement. Try to pull up on it. If it moves the toilet can move too. That is why it is important to secure the Closet Ring to the floor, what ever the floor might be. Good luck.

- - - - -

L. Sanders SR

Tastes change over the decades. We laugh at some of the styles people were into in the 80's. I was just thinking that if you want to redo the tile and the flange is glued, you are obliged to take out the subfloor. On the other hand, maybe it is easier to remove the subfloor that to rip out mortared and screwed backer board.

Another option is to use the flanges that fits outside the riser pipe. You would still solvent weld the connection. But if one day you have to retile, you can cut the flange off flush with the floor, then use a flange that fits inside. The portion of the hub on the outside fit flange should not interfere.



Edited 1 times.

roundrightfarm,

the flange does NOT sit on the subfloor

the flange sits on top of the finished tile

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Hello,

I wanted to add an issue I ran into. Mother in-law's condo bathroom floor was tile and changed to linoleum before she purchased it and moved in. Last year she asked me to come check about the supply leaking as sometimes there was water around the toilet base. So I check. Nothing wrong at the cut-off valve or tank connection. So I lift the toilet off and the flange is raised the height of the tile plus some (I think it was a little higher than the tile would have been - the tile was removed). This pushed the wax out leaving a poor seal. I put one of the waxless rings on. Unfortunately, that didn't compress as much as the wax did so I had to shim the toilet.

Normally, should there have been enough clearance with the flange mounted over the tile with the tile being removed to not cause this problem? Maybe I could have just used a wax ring again. Wax was squeezed out so much that I was afraid the seal wouldn't be adequate. By the way, the flange was glued and it's on a poured concrete slab.

I'm curious about anyone's thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Bill

For best practices the closet ring should not be too high off the finish floor. The high flange causes too little wax to be left between the bottom of the bowl and the top of the flange. The first time someone uses a plunger on this install, the wax will blow out and the toilet will leak when flushed and the toilet will need to be reset only after the closet ring is lowered to the correct height. The closet ring flange should be resting on the finish floor surface period!

- - - - -

L. Sanders SR

Flange ON floor

PERIOD



.
.
.
.

"Theoretically" it will not leak without a gasket,

BUT,

it will stink (unless totally caulked and sealed around base of toilet AND the 'Johnny Bolt' holes in the china).

The above is a JOKE

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



Edited 1 times.

Hope ok for me to jump in and ask a question.
Notice pics in this post recommend plastic flanges. Do most plumbers still use them without a stainless ring,

I have seen so many of the just ABS or PVC ones crack. Or over the years the flange warps. Like the toilet bolts actually cause the flange to bend up.

Have they got better or am I missing something?

Thanks

Man this thread makes me feel like the old curmudgeon that I am. All this plastic & tinfoil. I'm still using cast-iron insta-set flanges, and never had one fail.

They still make those? I prefer the PVC flange with the stainless mounting ring.

- - - - - - -

Not a plumber by trade but a fierce DIYer

Far too many times the bolts are over tightened due to the assumption that 'tighter is better'.

They merely need to be 'snugged'.

The toilet should then be caulked to the floor.


The older, way older, 4 bolt toilets 'had it right': flange bolts snugged, anchor bolts tight.

Today, in principle of operation, the anchor bolts have been replaced by caulk.

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Quote

Re-tiling the floor. If for some reason you wanted to re-tile you you could easily remove the closet flange, re-tile, and then re-install. It's much more difficult to tile around a flange that's in place. Of course this begs the question of how often do you re-tile a bathroom floor?

I don't know how often one retiles just the bathroom floor. I have seen plenty of bathroom retiling but since many bathrooms also have wall tiles, and tiles inside the shower, In many cases once someone commit to a retile they are talking about a complete retile which involves more than just the floor itself, by then dealing with a new flange is a small item in the total project.

Also, once the toilet is pulled, section of the tiles sitting under the flange is relatively small. A chisel and hammer and a couple of taps the tile comes loose with the portion under the flange. Yes you still need to clean up the thinset below but that's not a major thing either. If the new tiles are thicker like 3/8" instead of 1/4" then one cannot slide the new tiles under the old ones.

As a DIYer I would solvent weld to make a stronger connection if I can. If I cannot because it is a dissimilar material, or because the riser pipe is slightly out of round, or it has some stubborn buildup on the inside that cannot be removed...I would use a push fit as a "Plan B".

ditto

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

The flange must snugly fit the pipe for securing parts together, or else issues will arise. It’s responsible for the stability of the toilet and keeps the odor from getting into the bathroom. Although it stays hidden, you have to know its importance.