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Author:
shel488 (NY)
A Toto toilet (Eco Supreme One-Piece 1.28GPF Model # MS863113(E)) that we have had for only 16 months has recently been emitting squealing sounds from the tank at apparently random times when not being flushed. The noise lasts no more than ten seconds, but is loud enough to wake someone sleeping in the adjacent bedroom. (No such noise occurs when flushing.) Searching on this valuable website I have learned that this noise likely indicates that water is leaking from the tank into the bowl, and when the water level gets sufficiently low the refill valve turns on. When I have been close to the toilet when the noise occurs, lifting the lid reveals water flowing from the refill tube into the overflow pipe. I guess that confirms the diagnosis. But I am left with a few questions:
1) The normal refill after flushing is silent, so why does the non-flush refill make this squealing sound?
2) I find that just jiggling the flush handle without really flushing stops the noise immediately. How?
3) The really important practical question: Is there an easy way to determine if the cause is something I or my equally not very knowledgeable super might be able to fix without calling a plumber, such as by replacing a flapper? (I’m guessing that would be easy, but I don’t really know.)
4) I’m a bit past the one year warranty, and the warranty doesn’t cover plastic or rubber parts anyway, but in view of the newness, should I contact Toto anyway? (I have two other toilets of the same model and vintage which don’t (yet?) have this problem.)
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Author:
packy (MA)
have toto send you a new flapper. that should cure the problem of water running when not flushed.
there is probably debris in the filter screen at thebase of the fill valve. you need to remove the supply tube to access the filter.
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Author:
hlee (OH)
i would agree with packy about the flush valve (flapper). if you have a choice get a soft one for best seal.
the noise is a different issue. the flush valve normally has a property that causes it to snap on and snap off. when it fills normally you should see that. but as rubber parts inside age and become hard then it can be eased into just barely coming on when you have a slow leak. at some critical flow rate it will oscillate (vibrate). and that's what you hear.
replacing the rubber parts inside the fill valve or replacing the fill valve itself will solve the noise problem but if you change the flush valve then its likely it wont happen anyhow.
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Author:
shel488 (NY)
Packy and HLee, thanks to both of you for responding, but I am having trouble following your reasoning. Is a defective flapper the only possible cause for a leak from the tank into the bowl? Can a flapper wear out in just 15 months of relatively light use? Packy, what led you to assume debris is present? Are you suggesting that debris causes the noise (by in effect narrowing the pipe)? I don't seem to have a choice of flapper. Inside the lid it specifies flapper THU275S. I'll call Toto and see what they say.
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Author:
packy (MA)
99% of the time, debris is the cause of whistling noise. (in new fixtures and faucets) (i would consider your 15 month as new).
so, for now, replace the flapper with the exact replacement from Toto.
if you want, shut the water to the toilet, remove the top part of the flexible supply and with a mirror have a look inside the fill valve shaft. there should be a filter a couple of inches up. check it for debris.
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Author:
shel488 (NY)
Toto tech support says the leak is not through the flapper itself, but that the flapper is not seating correctly. He is sending me "spacers" for all three toilets that he says should correct the problem, but he is throwing in new flappers as well. When I put the spacers on I will try to check for debris as well. I'll report on result by end of next week.
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Author:
packy (MA)
that is news to me.
I have installed lots and lots of Toto toilets and never had that problem..
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Author:
shel488 (NY)
I have been remiss in not reporting the positive result sooner. Putting on the spacers sent to me by Toto has totally solved the problem. No more squealing noise! Two puzzles remain: 1) Why has the noise never occurred in my two other Toto toilets with the same model flapper? Anyway,should it occur, I'm ready for it. 2) Why aren't the spacers standard with these Toto toilets? I suppose it could be because the problem they correct occurs only rarely.
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Author:
Karenska (FL)
I have been having the same issue with my Toto toilet. It's been happening every 10 minutes or so and wakes me up during the night. Very annoying! I will contact Toto.
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Author:
Trailmeister (CA)
Please describe "spacers". Where are they installed in the toilet?
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Author:
dillman (CA)
Can you tell us how you installed the spacers? toto sent me spacers without instructions- i have emailed them have not received a reply. Thanks
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Author:
meal0588 (LA)
I am so happy to see these postings. I haven't slept in days. I built a new home 18 months ago. I bought three expensive Toto toilets because they were rated so high for performance. This started with two toilets only occasionally making noises. A plumber came and couldn't find anything wrong. I went to the local Toto distributor with a film of the process. They said they never heard of it. No one else I have asked at Lowes, Home Depot or Ace Hardware has ever heard of this problem. I put food coloring in the tank of all three toilets. NO leaks in any of the bowls. The last few days it has been happening almost every hour. I finally figured out what is happening, I think. I watched the toilet fill. The filler has a slow drip that drips continuously. Is this normal? Over the course of the hour, the water level dropped in the tank until the filler refilled the water to the appropriate water level, making the most god awful sucking sound in the process. If I can't fix this problem I have to move to another room. I can't go through this another night. Two toilets are doing it. It infuriates me that I would pay so much money for these toilets to learn that they don't perform as well as the cheapest toilets on the market. My builder thought I was crazy to pay that much for these toilets. Now, knowing these toilets are almost new, he was right. So my questions are: is it normal for the filler to have a slow drip from the top part and what is happening that the tank is leaking water, not into the bowl apparently, and the sounds associated with refilling? HELP PLEASE. Plumber confused too!
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Author:
wil914 (CA)
I have had the same symptom and solution on 2 of my newish (2 years) Toto toilets.
Toto sent replacement flapper and other parts but all that was needed was the small spacers (washers) that keeps the flapper centered. I have no idea why it was not standard. Have to assume it's been redesigned or included now.
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