I have already roughed in my master shower which is 6'x7' in size.

On one wall I have a PB valve with a diverter going to a hand shower, an overhead shower about 72" high, and a tub spout (no tub, just for filling up buckets).

On the opposite wall I have the same PB valve with a diverter, going to a hand shower, two body sprays and an overhead from the ceiling rain shower.

For the overhead ceiling rain shower I have already done all the piping to the middle of the shower etc...and the trim I will be using a 8" Grohe rain shower head 28373000.



At least that is the plan.

Until recently I picked up a Kohler rain shower head K-8030 for close to nothing.

It's this guy with four spray heads.



Has anyone ever installed one of these?

The installation guide.

[www.us.kohler.com]

I am trying to decide between the Grohe rain shower head versus this one. I have never seen this one "in action". Any comments?

I am concerned my 1/2" inlet PBV cannot deliver enough water to this head with four outlets.

It says "Four outlets at 2.2-gpm (gallons per minute) flow rate." That means a total of 8.8 gpm?

I have a grohsafe 1/2" PB valve. Will it work? Do I need to pressure test the line coming out AFTER the valve?

what size is the connection on the kohler head? if it is 1/2 then that is what you run.

It has 4 heads, each head has it's own 1/2" connection.

Installation guide: [www.us.kohler.com]

On page 4, it says to solder together a balance loop with 4 tees.

So I am thinking, this single shower head is really like four 1/2" body sprays.

I am concerned whether my single 1/2" line will be able to satisfy the demand of this pipe, and how would I find out?

Now that's the shower head I need(!)

If you look on the Grohe site, you should find the spec sheets for the PBS and the diverted; the sheet will list each valve's max flow. You'll be limited the "lowest max" of the valves in the circuit.

Looks like Kohler has created another solution for a problem that nobody had.

Sum.You will most likely be ok for flow rate on city water supply over seventy psi.the bodies are indeed just four panels put together in a nice box.they have built in pressure compensators and rubber nipples delivering the water.So even at less gpm the spray streams still function.Please be sure to use brass or sch80 nipples on install.have serviced many where the plumber used galvanized nipples and rust closure developed.Installing is easy be sure to get a grip around the reverse set screws on the final install step.

..............andonandonandonandon........................

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

Grohe valve says:

Flow rate at 45 psi flow pressure: (top port) 5.5 gpm or 21 L/min; (bottom port) 5.8 gpm or 22 L/min

Not sure what my pressure is.

But if each of the four ports takes 2.2 gpm and its only putting out 5.5 gpm then I won't have 4 evenly spraying heads but splashes and drips?

The balance loop, what is the purpose of the middle pipe? Isn't the left and right side sufficient?





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Hey bernabeu that's what makes the world go around. We survived the Mayan apocalypes and now I am celebrating with a better rain shower head. I need to do rain dances, naked.

LOL hj, well I am only considering this because it's uniqueness and "cool factor".

Will it enhance the shower experience? No.

But my realtor said I should do it because it's over the top and this could be very appealing to rich soccer moms who seem to often make purchase decisions based on "gadgets".

But I am also curious to see how it works.

Have you seen those single spout in the ceiling that puts out a single stream down the middle of a tub? I don't know about the practicality of those either but they look cool in "Architecture Today".

Lemon I don't know what my city pressure is. I may need to get a pressure gauge to find out.

uuummmm......let me see........

(ASSUMING) 40 gal water heater ~ 28 gal useable / 8+ gpm = 4+ minute shower

80 gal water heater = 8+ minute shower

yuuuuuppp -> a really valueable upgrade

sorry for the 'bubble busting'

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

IT is an engineer's idea to to feed water to both ends of the loop. Just as ineffective as the loop itself. Copper tubing arranged in a "H" pattern, fed from the middle of the crossbar would do EXACTLY the same thing with a lot less time and material.

quote; I need to do rain dances, naked.

Now THAT is a visual I did not need.

Is that enough time for him to drown?

Hey if I drown who is going to ask really esoteric questions here?

wow, is this conversation going historically geographical all at once.
first sum mentions the mayans, then hj mentions the esoterics, who is next, the vikings ??

noooooo ....... i believe we would all be classified as 'stoics' since we actually put up with this toric kaka

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

My new shower build includes full 3/4 feed all the way to the shower head (just because) so I could run that thing....
But I would need to get a much larger WH, methinks.

i've install a few grohe rainhead shower heads. i can't imagine anyone would want more water nor a more even spray pattern.
i can't find a cutaway picture but it is not just a plate with a bucnch of holes drilled in it. it has lots of nooks, crannies and passages inside. it is actually engineered to perform.
by the way, in looking around the net, i found this.. sort of an economical fix for getting more water at shower time.

Esoteric questions are one thing, the answers are the challenging part. Therefore, our lives would be much easier without them, although we would probably send flowers.

Th Langoliers?

As an aside, will this shower have a wax spray and also do the tires?

I thought the most challenging questions are the ones with insufficient information.

Like "my tub backed up what should I do now?" with no explanation and further diagnosis.

My questions are specific so the answers are usually (a) you are doing it right, (b) wrong...this way, (c) you are nuts sum.

Oh don't answer that...



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Hahahahahaha...yes.

I have an extra hansgrohe diverter valve.

I was going to install it reversed. Instead of one inlet two outlets, I will feed soapy water into one outlet and ArmorAll into the other. The inlet port will be used as an outlet port piped to body sprays to wash and beautify the wheels.

I tried it and it worked OK but I think the ArmorAll is too thick the route through the diverter without clogging. So I am going to reinstall it "hj style" to have it upside down so the ArmorAll will feed into the larger tub spout outlet.

See, I pay attention!

actually, you use a diverter like this one.
bottom ports are for hot and cold in. top 6 ports can be used for shampoo, armour-all, rain-dance, symonize, fabric softner and double extra strength head and shoulders.
now if kohler could only figure out how to get various mixture to go the intended fixture..

Those questions are not too challenging, because the answer is either, "We don't know" or "call a plumber". The answer to "challenging" questions is usually, "That is a stupid idea", or "Is this another 'close out' item you found for $10.00?"

Heck, I'd give ya $20 for it!

You could buy a four foot long two foot wide head with dual 3/4" inlets,and know exactly /what\, not enough flow means.Just saying Kohler covers some lessor loops and lower flow rates with still working appeal!!!I never loop. Always proportion locate tee's as plumbed?One should always up feed a stack of delivery devises!Weeping body sprays/heads, are a sign of poor design.Could call the city ask them for static delivered them call grohe and ask what inlet pressure the outlet static is based on?Balance true 1/2 or is the fixture feed lessor?



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quote; Could call the city ask them for static delivered

I did that once and they said, "buy a gauge". When I told them all the faucets were after PRVs, and I needed to know what was in the main, they said, "Get a gauge that fits on a fire hydrant. Our pressures are different all over the city, and if you are on a hill it will be less than in the valley."

So I went to Kohler and contacted them with my question.

"Four outlets at 2.2-gpm (gallons per minute) flow rate." - is that 2.2gpm per head total of 8.8gpm consumption or 2.2gpm total?

A rep called me a few days later from Kohler and said it's 8.8gpm total. So like bernabeu said if it's a 40 gallon WH it's only going last 3-4 minutes, well actually double that since the consumption of the shower head is after mixing the hot and cold.

I asked if this shower head is for a residential home with a giant WH or for people who takes super quick showers she couldn't answer that.



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Plan on adding a Rinnai RU98 tankless water heater and you will be in business. Otherwise, I hope you enjoy very vigorous...cold showers. When I built my house, the master shower with everyhting running (All valved separate) can and will do 16GPM. I put in two Rinnai R85i (The unit at the time) to feed the house, and never looked back. Works great.

Now one other thing nobody else metioned yet...As a smart guy, with 8.8GPM...just how is all that water going to get out of the shower? Do you have this thing going into a standard tub/shower with an 1-1/2" drain? Guess what?



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Give your kids a great start on the future! Encourage them learn a trade. Even if they go on to do other things, it's always nice to know that they have something to fall back on. Call your local technical training center or trade school to learn more.

quote; well actually double that since the consumption of the shower head is after mixing the hold and cold.

And even that depends on the initial temperature of the water in the tank. 110 degrees, add NO cold water. 120 degrees add a little cold water but probably not enough to make a big difference in the time of the shower. 140 degrees, add more cold and MAYBE double the volume of water.

Nope 2" drain.

I might not use this Kholer shower head and go back to the original Grohe head.

It's not going to be a regular usage anyways. I piped two set of valves on opposing walls. One side has a standard setup (hand shower, overhead shower 78" above floor, toe tester) and the other side has this setup (hand shower, rain shower from the ceiling, 2 body sprays).

HJ other tha in high rises prv's are not used here even in 95 psi area's?