Hello all,

I just had a new concrete floor poured in a portion of my basement for the sole purpose of adding a powder room. The floor came out nice except for the area around the closet flange. As you can see from the pics below, it is crooked and too low. I intend to tile the floor, so this will add an additional 1/2" in height to the area surrounding the closet flange.

Any advice on how to address this particular issue? Of course I'm concerned about an inadequate seal when the toilet is installed. The plumbers advice was to use an extra-thick wax ring - that sounds like a band-aid solution to me, but he is the master plumber so what do I know... Thanks!

its not perfect by any means, but its not that bad either...ive seen worse

i would suggest a double wax ring at this point...the toilet sits on the floor and the wax will make up for any crookedness on the collar(within reason)

if i were your plumber i wouldnt lose any sleep worrying about your toilet leaking....

is the concrete crooked or the collar??? i always stub a piece of pipe out and cut it down for the collar after the pour....i think your plumber did step 2 before step 1...so this issue wouldnt have happened with me.

choose your battles wisely....decide if this fight is worth it with your plumber....i would probably let it go

One or two extension flanges, and if necessary the judicious placement of some SS washers, and a bead of silicone, can probably give you a level flange at the right height.

quote; always stub a piece of pipe out and cut it down for the collar after the pour....i think your plumber did step 2 before step 1...so this issue wouldnt have happened with me.

It would if the pipe were not perfectly vertical. The toilet does NOT sit on the flange, therefore the flange does not have to be perfectly level. The wax ring compensates for irregularities, but since it will be below the tile you should use a #10 extra thick wax ring.

The flange should be at least flush with the finished floor, preferably about 1/4" above it.

A little deviation is fine, but building up two wax rings is not a good way to make up for the lack of flange height.

If you are tiling the floor it will be even lower...If you marble/granite/hardwood/etc...it will be far too low.

At this point, you are unlikely going to raise it without breaking up the concrete and putting it where it should be. I would at a minimum, anchor a Sioux Chief stainless steel repair flange or equivalent to the concrete on top of the existing plastic flange.

This will give you a little extra height to compensate for tile as well as provide a solid flange for the closet bolts to tighten to. The plastic flanges are prone to flex and/or pull out of the slots where the closet bolts are pulling on them. This is especially the case when they are not anchored down to the concrete.

Trust your intuition...

quote; The plastic flanges are prone to flex and/or pull out of the slots where the closet bolts are pulling on them. This is especially the case when they are not anchored down to the concrete.


I have NEVER had that happen, and besides, this is a metal flange which will NOT flex or pull out.

a master plumber installed a closet flange before the floor was poured and the tile was set???
where did he get his license, an online institute??

Agree with Packy. Not a master's work. Sure things can be adjusted here, but this job was a fresh start/new construction and the guy flubbed it. Is he paid in full yet???????

You're gonna have to drill out some clearance for the closet bolts too.

ive been double waxing toilets on occasion forever and never had a call back for a leak...on new construction they change from vinyl to tile all the time w/o telling me, so i run into collars 1/2" low all the time....i wouldnt worry about the 2x wax rings

if he had just stubbed up a pipe, let them pour the concrete, cut the pipe and then put the collar on this wouldnt have been any issue...yea maybe he was drunk and put an extra 5 degrees on the pipe, but the collar would have had enough play in it when he glued and jumped on it a few times....

someone mentioned something about a plastic collar??? i think they should be illegal...no one should bolt their toilet down to a piece of plastic that only gets brittle with age...i crack them all the time....when i run into one on a remodel i screw a metal ring over it

i strongly recommend against shimming up toilets....using silicone in between the shims??...ive been on a few water damage jobs where guys did this on 2nd floor toilets...when the sewer backs up the water pours out of the shims...its not a correct seal...2x wax rings is a much better solution.

i think if the homeowner didnt notice the crooked flange and the plumber had already installed the toilet no one would even know the difference....it isnt perfect, its borderline unprofessional..my work never looks like that.....but its not a huge deal either...

I do not like to see it done, but it happens here quite often. The inspectors want to see the flange in place for the inspection, so a lot of plumbers install it on the roughin, rather than the top out.

if that is a 4" pipe i would just cement a new flange right on top of that plastic one

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PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

I have seen some flange spacer rings that comes in plastic.

I don't know if this would fly, but if you truly want level and nice, can't you take a plastic spacer (they come in different depths) and since you are already low and if add tile even lower, compensate with a spacer?

What I mean is, if it's 1/4" lower on one end, create some sort of a jig and secure the flange, and use a sander or angle grinder to slowly "shave" the spacer ring until is becomes a tapered ring. Then attach that to the crooked flange, then put a new flange on top of that. Would that work?

This is much ado about nothing.

I also stub up four inch and then cut it and install the flange after the cement is poured, but that doesn't mean everyone does. Some guys even wait until the finished floor is in place and cut it then and install the flange.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. I run into flanges installed in the concrete every now and then when I finish a basement. I would prefer not to do it for a few reasons, but to each their own.

The only thing I really don't like is the crooked pipe, but even that is not a big deal like others have said. Who knows, maybe he had it nice and plumb but the cement guys moved it somehow. It seems hard to imagine that they could have put it out of level that much, but it also seems hard to believe that a plumber with a level would do it either.

Your plumber will handle it and it will be fine.

Muchh thanks for all of the advice. It is a 3" flange. If it was a 4", I would apply an insert after the floor was finished and be done with it.

I usually use a different plumber, so this guy was new to me. He was the plumber that the concrete mason usually works with, so I thought it would be less likely that they blame each other if an issue comes up. I'm certainly not inclined to have anyone start tearing up concrete for this issue, I just wanted to know the best way to address it since "it is what it is".

Thanks again.

Bead of silicon- 1/2" PVC flang spacer- standard wax ring. Not a problem.

Yes, but it is a lot of work for no reason, other than to "look nice".

Quote

The flange should be at least flush with the finished floor, preferably about 1/4" above it.

The back of the flange should be flush with the finished floor.
The flange should also be 'bolted/affixed' to the sub floor.



Get it redone properly.

The pipe should have been left 'long' with the flange to be affixed AFTER the floor was finished. Now the 'plumber' will have to chisel out concrete, cut pipe with internal cutter, affix coupling and extend piping, etc OR remove existing flange and replace with an 'internal' adapter 3" flange at proper elevation for finsished floor. Personally, I would do the latter, but, since YOU are paying for 'new' work.............

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



Edited 2 times.

bernbeau is 100%, spot on correct..
while we are at it, the way i would have done this job would have been with a 3 x 4 closet bend.
spigot end sticks up thru the cement and tile. cut it flush and glue a 4" flush fit flange into the pipe.


see flange here..
[www.plumbingsupply.com]

quote; the way i would have done this job would have been with a 3 x 4 closet bend.
spigot end sticks up thru the cement and tile. cut it flush and glue a 4" flush fit flange into the pipe

Well, I would have done it even MORE correctly, by sleeving the 4x3 bend and installing the collar with a METAL flange OVER the pipe, then cut the pipe flush with the top of the flange.

for the shoemakers among us:

Toilet Flange Spacer System



Shown: 1/4" - 1-5/8" Extender Kit The perfect solution for when your toilet flange is below the surface of the floor. Whether you mix and match the individual spacers, or simply choose a complete kit, raising your flange to the exact height of your floor is a breeze with these ANSI/IAPMO certified products!

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==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

@bernabeu - I think everybody agrees that this situation can be remedied with appropriate spacers, but the plumber effed it up from the start when he had a clean slate to work from. Pretty sad if he's purporting to be a master plumber. Shoot - I'm only a plumber on TV and I would have set the flange higher from the get go.

hj, that's how we used to set the old cast iron flanges.
we never worried about the closet bend being too high. just set the flange, pack oakum, pour the lead and (using a ball peen hammer)tap outwards on the excess cast iron. it would break, more or less, level with the top of the lead. the horn on the toilet always set lower than the rough edges of the cast iron closet bend so never a worry about anything getting stuck on a sharp edge.

quote; I'm only a plumber on TV and I would have set the flange higher from the get go.

The average plumber would NOT have installed it until after the tile was set, but if the riser is "crooked", it makes no difference when it is installed, it will still be off level, and stil not make a difference. Unless it is TOO much off level.

IT is also the way I install all my toilet rough ins. NO 3" risers or street ells, and no 4" risers imbedded in concrete.

Quote

@bernabeu - I think everybody agrees that this situation can be remedied with appropriate spacers, but the plumber effed it up from the start when he had a clean slate to work from. Pretty sad if he's purporting to be a master plumber. Shoot - I'm only a plumber on TV and I would have set the flange higher from the get go.

DOH .... to repeat:

"Get it redone properly.

The pipe should have been left 'long' with the flange to be affixed AFTER the floor was finished. Now the 'plumber' will have to chisel out concrete, cut pipe with internal cutter, affix coupling and extend piping, etc OR remove existing flange and replace with an 'internal' adapter 3" flange at proper elevation for finsished floor. Personally, I would do the latter, but, since YOU are paying for 'new' work............."

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

To quote Yogi Berra...."It's like deja vu all over again".

If the riser is not vertical, the flange will ALWAYS be off level, because there is not enough "play" in a plastic hub to straighten it out.

how can one tell in this case if the riser is not level or the flange was installed crooked? I assume the floor is level?

What hj said.

If the riser were vertical, the flange would be level. It is as simple as that.

Original:
"Author: hj
quote; The plastic flanges are prone to flex and/or pull out of the slots where the closet bolts are pulling on them. This is especially the case when they are not anchored down to the concrete.

I have NEVER had that happen, and besides, this is a metal flange which will NOT flex or pull out."


HJ, their flange is not metal, it is a Lasco plastic one.

How do you know you never had that happen? If you do not do the service plumbing on your initial installs, then you wouldn't have "seen" them pull out.

I do 100% service plumbing. I've have had to fix numerous all plastic flanges where the rough in plumber was lazy and didn't anchor them. When you don't at least anchor them down, the upward force pulls the weaker bolt slots off the ground a little...its all fine for a while, but when the plastics' temper eventually reaches its new "normal" position, the bolts loosen and the toilet starts the wiggle causing the bowl to loosen and/or leak.

After reading a few of your posts on this thread and others, I feel as though you think your opinion has greater value than the other posters...as you stated "MORE correctly" in this thread to packy about their 4x3 ell post.

There are a lot of professionals on here taking the time to answer homeowners and other plumbers' questions...each bringing different views to the same issue. For the most part, I agree with your opinions...but when you intentionally or unintentionally add inflammatory comments like "and besides" and "MORE correctly"...they only take away from your credibility and make people discount what you say.

I'm sure you have a good amount of experience in the field...how bout' we talk to each other like professionals

packy: I use that 4"x3" ell in combination with the Stainless Steel ringed 4" slip flange to replace lead bends that were installed flush with the bottom of the sub-floor. Work like a charm.

These spacers can be turned over and sanded to floor level and then flipped over for use to straighten the unlevel pipe/floor attachment ring problems. At the same time, the top can be raised to the desired height.