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Author:
sum (FL)
I noticed someone mentioned deburring PVC pipes in other threads.
I used a deburrer on copper pipes, but never did on PVC pipes.
I usually cut my PVC pipes using a compound miter saw, the cut is typically clean. If the end will be inserted into a fernco rubber sleeve I do worry about sharp edges so I would run a piece of sand paper over the edge once or twice.
What is the purpose of deburring PVC pipes? Especially the 3", 4" drain pipes? I am trying to understand.
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Author:
jimmy-o (CA)
Just like cutting copper or steel,, you will have a burr on the inside edge, which affects water flow and attracts crappola.
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
Sum.the bevel sets the joint to start.inside for puddling of glue and outside for flow to two sided cohesion.It is a step often forgone.which makes little sense.Although in waste dwv pvc tubing the fitting is made for clean square cuts.Beveled to accurately disperse proper cement flow. Especially with use of no hub or fernco type flexible coupling the interior edge should be beveled to set against tubular variation as coupled.Down stream is the key.
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Author:
SimplePlumber (NJ)
Deburring/Chamfering the pipe on the outer edge after it is cut allows the glue to glide between the fitting and the pipe.
This prevents the glue from being completely pushed out of the joint as the pipe enters and greatly reduces the chance of a leak.
Deburring it on the inner edge on water pipes prevents turbulence and leftover cutting particles that get washed into the small orifices in plumbing fixtures. On drain pipes, it prevents things from catching on them as they pass through the pipe.
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Author:
sum (FL)
So there is an actual pvc deburrer you actual use to make a bevel edge?
I never did that with my drains in the house, does it mean all the inside profiles of my joints have a tiny "bump" from the hardened pvc glue? I only run a sandpaper over both inside ands outside edge when I use a transition coupling and that was to avoid the sharp cut edge damaging the rubber sleeve and its only smoothing the edge not beveled.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Ridgid, among others, makes a "deburring cone" for the larger pipe sizes. The inside of the cone smooths the outside of the pipe, and the outer surface does the pipe's inside.
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Author:
HelpMePlumb (FL)
Wow. In my 20+ years of contracting I've NEVER seen a plumber use a deburring tool on PVC. At best a quick rub with a rag.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
.....then, you've never seen it done properly
remember:
SMOOTH INTEGRAL BORE
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
RWP (SD)
I used deburring tools from the first when I started using plastic water and drain pipe.
- - - - - - - - - -
Retired after 50 years of plumbing and heating.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Check out the Ridgid BT-1 plastic pipe beveler 1 1/2" to 8".
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Author:
sum (FL)
WOW that's an expensive tool!
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Author:
hj (AZ)
It works easily on the inside, but is a pain to use on the outside of the pipe.
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Author:
sum (FL)
If the edges need to be deburred in order to "hug" the tapered inside "lip" of the hub for a perfect joint, then if the pipe does not even bottom out it's an even worse connection then!
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
if the pipe does not 'bottom out' it is an improper 'joint' which needs to be corrected in order to insure a:
SMOOTH INTEGTAL BORE
ps. if us 'plumbers' will not/can not do the job PROPERLY, why are we needed at all?
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
quote; if us 'plumbers' will not/can not do the job PROPERLY, why are we needed at all?
To give guidance to all the DIYers who think they are as good as, or better than, plumbers but just want us to help them do it???
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
sum (FL)
That may be true, but you also have to recognize that the plumbers who post here are the top masters who take pride in their work and do not necessarily reflect 80% of what goes on in the field (and may be 98% of south Florioda LOL).
If all plumbers are like the ones here I would have never fired one after another and found this site to ask "OK here is what they did, what do I do now?"
I consider myself a "reluctant" DIYer.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
PROPER plumbing costs BIG $$$$$$$$$
You may not be able to afford 'real' plumbing.
There should be NO DIFFERENCE between 'commercial' and 'residential' piping (except for fixture quality based on hard commercial usage) except that 'commercial jobs' may be inspected (not code inspections) by people who actually know what they want and will not pay for work done below 'specification' (which is usually way way above MINIMUM code requirement).
Most residential builders are only concerned with meeting the MINIMUM codes and could care less about actual quality.
May God bless and help us all through these times of 'good 'nuff, i'll get paid anyway'
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
HelpMePlumb (FL)
@bernabeu - How could a inspector on a commercial (or ANY) job possibly know that the inside of a cut pipe in a solvent welded connection was deburred??????????
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Author:
sum (FL)
The new airport scanners could definitely do it.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
you're missing my point
any of or combination of the project manager, design engineer, architect, quality control inspector would be 'bird dogging' the actual construction
these would be either direct employees of the actual builder/owner or employees of his architectural and/or design firm
the purpose of this would be to ensure that the project SPECIFICATIONS are actually met
since even the minimum code requires a SMOOTH INTEGRAL BORE the actual installation is checked
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
Edited 2 times.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
it 'might' even be the union rep making sure that the work is actually being done properly
albeit
this would be done in order to increase the job's man hours w/o actual featherbedding
food for thought:
why, as actual trained plumbers, would we NOT want the work done PROPERLY as per the piping mfgr's instruction???
look up: how to install PVC drainage piping .... even the internet shows 'de-burring'
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
even for DIYers:
[www.ehow.com]
5) Place a pocketknife on the cut edges of the existing pipe and slide it over any rough edges to deburr the pipe. Wipe the edges of the pipe inside and out with a dry cloth to remove any moisture.
[www.ehow.com]
1) Mark the existing PVC pipeline at the point where it needs to be cut and the new pipe installed. Cut through the PVC pipe at the mark, using either a hacksaw or handsaw. If possible, use a power saw to make a cleaner cut. Make sure that the cut is straight, and scrape away plastic fragments or burrs with a utility knife.
"DIY"
"BEST"
reverse the 'cone' to de-burr the inside
what part of this did y'all miss while in training...this is even 'taught' at the big box stores
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
Edited 5 times.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
to repeat:
SMOOTH
INTEGRAL
BORE
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
end rant
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
packy (MA)
i have been installing plastic pipes since the early 60's. the next pipe i deburr or chamfer will be my first.
if i even once had a problem, i would deburr. i never have had a problem and never will.
also, good plumbing does not have to be expensive. it just has to be good. one has nothing to do with the other.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
YOU will never have a problem, the customer PROBABLY/MAY have one several months/years 'down the road' because of lack of a smooth integral bore ..... this would be almost impossible to trace to the installing plumber since the (sub-standard non-code-compliant) job actually DID pass inspection
IF IT WAS NOT DE-BURRED IT WAS NOT COMPLIANT EVEN THOUGH IT "PASSED INSPECTION"
Proper work adds man hours and cost to any job when compared to 'who flung dung and run', by the way, 'where's my check?'
where on earth did our training and pride go?
ps. 'chamferring' is not necessary providing DWV fittings are used ... AGAIN ... smooth integral bore
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
Edited 2 times.
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
Again?Sum.you seem to want to rise your works to the best.your dwv fitting fixed the glued as fitted joints.why you would want to bevel as is as said.where you have flexed joints and at best to lessen the down stream shoulder of slight misalignment.no amount of bevel of tubing will fix screwed up joints.No bevel is at best a lessor concern.deburing is not bevel.but the effort it takes to remove saw rough edges.Rough thumbs???look at plumbers fingers.The tool is for pansies!!!
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Author:
sum (FL)
I usually cut my PVC pipes with a chop saw, so the cut is fairly clean, if there are left over "strands" or bits I would smooth it out with my gloved hand usually. I have never chamfered the outside edges such that it connected perfectly to the hub's inside taper. I think for me due to lack of experience I typically do not cut the pipes to the exact length. I measure and dry fit everything and when I cut I cut a little short by say 1/4", so when I glue them I can push them together to the mark and know it's at the right spot, but it may not have bottomed out by 1/4". So for me the chamfering would not have made a difference because I think to truly make the chamfer work you have to cut the exact length.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Chamfering has nothing to do with whether the pipe bottoms out. I never chamfer, but I always insert the pipe fully.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
@Author: sum (FL);
if you do not bottom out into the fitting you will not obtain a smooth integral bore and are (willfully) defeating the very purpose of using a DWV fitting
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
sum (FL)
If I dry fit my pipes and mark where I need to make the cut, I do it with a sharpie pen, which makes a mark about say 1/8" thick. When I then walks over to my chop saw to cut, I religiously cut it to the short side of that mark because I'd rather undershoot then overshoot it. When I do glue them I try to bottom it but if it reaches the 1.5" depth I stop there instead of pushing it all the way in, so if I miss the bottom I miss it by 1/8" or 1/4" the most.
But my point is if you do the chamfering you must bottom out 100% to get that true smooth inside transition, which means you also have to measure/cut pipes by taking into account chamfer lip's depth which I am thinking is not easy to do with precision.
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Author:
jimmy-o (CA)
This is another 6 day thread about a solution in search of a problem!@
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Would they need "ground penetrating radar" to look at buried pipes, because horizontal pipes are the only ones it would make any difference on.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
quote; what part of this did y'all miss while in training
When I was in training, we did NOT use plastic piping. I never even saw a PVC or DWV dwv fitting or installation until I moved from the Chicago area, but that also applies to No-Hub cast iron which we also never used.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
quote; 'chamferring' is not necessary providing DWV fittings are used ... AGAIN ... smooth integral bore
If they are NOT used, for a DWV system, then it is flawed from the start, regardless of beveling or chamfering. The extent of my chamfering consists of rotating one side of the cut pipe inside the other one.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
if you need to deburr metal pipe ..... you need to deburr plastic pipe
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
quote; if you need to deburr metal pipe
You ONLY deburr metal pipe if you cut it with a saw. Most metal pipe is cut with a "wheel cutter" which creates a "bead" which needs to be "reamed" not deburred.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
ok ok ok ... the nit is long dead
SMOOTH INTEGRAL BORE says it all
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
SwimRunPlumb (MI)
You have "said it all" SEVEN times.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
eight times
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
He is obsessive/compulsive with a short memory.
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Author:
sum (FL)
What about deburring clay pipes?
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Good luck, except I don't know HOW you could get a "burr" on them.
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Author:
LemonPlumber (FL)
Sum where the tubing is aligned?the need is to remove rough cuts only.worry not.
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
Yeah.....Don't bother on the mis-aligned ones.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
str8pypes (AL)
if a pipe doesnt fully bottom into a fitting and that joint is upline of the toilet drain, how critical is the lack of an integral joint if only sink water discharges through it?
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