Welcome to Plbg.com
Thank you to all the plumbing professionals who offer their advice and expertise

Over 687,000 strictly plumbing related posts

Welcome to Plbg.com the PlumbingForum.com. We are the best online (strictly) PLUMBING advice, help, dyi, educational, and informational plumbing forum. Questions and discussions about toilets, sinks, faucets, drainage, venting, water heating, showers, pumps, and other exclusively PLUMBING related issues. Please refrain from asking or discussing legal questions, pricing, where to purchase a product, or any business issues, or for contractor referrals, or any other questions or issues not specifically related to plumbing. Keep all posts positive and absolutely no advertising. Our site is completely free, without ads or pop-ups. We do not sell your information. We are made possible by:  

Post New
Search
Log In
How to Show Images
Newest Subjects
 gasket wall hung toilet
Author: sgull (AK)

I'm considering replacing the plain wax gasket installed on a wall- mounted toilet with one of those felt gaskets treated with felt. But the following, as quoted from the Q and A portion about toilet gaskets (provided by from the sponsor of this forum), has me wondering whether I should instead be using the spongy neophrene type instead:
Q: "What about felt gaskets with wax, for my wall hung toilet?"
A: "It might be somewhat better than an all wax gasket, but since the felt does not take up all of the space, it also will leak once the wall has flexed/moved. Either the wall will flex, the closet (toilet) carrier will flex or the bolts will loosen somewhat. In all cases you need a quality gasket/sponge that bounces back and fills the void."

I've had other advice seeming to indicate that the wax-treated felt gaskets are the best way to go with for this application. Comments please?

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

The ERROR in that statement is that if the toilet was installed properly, it is NOT supported by, or touching the wall, so it is immaterial WHAT the wall does. It could fall down for that matter without affecting the toilet's seal. The felt imbedded wax will work, although I prefer the sponge rubber or all felt similar to the ones the carrier manufacturers supply.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: sgull (AK)

If the preferred gasket would be either the sponge rubber or the all-felt then I suppose that's what I'll use. I could use either, but which might be the best choice between those two? What may be some of the reasons one might decide to use the felt treated with wax or any of the three particular types over the other?

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

IT depends on whether the outlet nipple is the correct length. The wax gasket has "infinite" compressibility so unless the nipple is much too long, the wax will adapt to the length, and insertion into the toilet's recess. The foam one also has great compressibility, but it will not adapt to an extremely long nipple before it is completely compressed. THe felt one has the least adaptability and extemely little compressibility, so if the nipple is not at the correct distance from the wall, it could prevent the toilet from contacting the backup washers which would result in a poor installation.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: sgull (AK)

So if I am understanding, then I should be using a felt gasket only in the case that the outlet nipple is at the the correct distance from the wall. But would the wax-treated felt gasket be of any advantage, or would plain felt be the better choice?

If the nipple is much too long, would a plain wax gasket be the way to go, or should a plain wax gasket never be used on a wall hung toilet installation?

Should the foam one be used only if the nipple is slightly further out from the wall than it should be and/or in the case where it is at the correct distance from the wall?

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: LemonPlumber (FL)

Zurn gasket,comes with cement to insure the gasket stays with both the bowl and the flange.But the mating surfaces must be completely clean and the dry has a 24 hour setting time.making it very inconvenient for some service apps.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: sgull (AK)

One plumber suggested he uses the Zurn gasket mentioned above on a new install and the wax and felt combined on a repair. This is not a new install so maybe the Zurn gasket may not be a good choice for my repair application.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: LemonPlumber (FL)

HJ is pretty sharp, so following his lead is not going to be a bad way to go.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: sgull (AK)

Actually, following HJ's lead here on this issue is what I'm trying to do. I'm really hoping he will have a response to the few questions in my last post in this thread for further clarity on my part.



Edited 1 times.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: dlh (TX)

if you get the bowl cleaned well enough the zurn will work just fine. it is just quicker and easier to get and install a wax covered gasket. the only real difference is that wax is used to keep the gasket in place vs. the cement used by the plain gasket

- - - - - - -

PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

NEVER use a plain wax one. That is why they specify "for floor outlet toilets only". The wax/felt ones can used anytime. The foam usually unless the outlet nipple is too far out. And the felt one ONLY when the nipple is at the correct distance.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

IF the gasket is good for a new installation, it is good for a remodel. The "glue" is a belt and suspenders application, and does NOTHING to create or maintain the seal. Once the gasket is inserted into the bowl's recess it is going to stay there. And once the bowl is mounted to the carrier, the gasket CANNOT move anywhere, making the glue superfluous and the 24 hour wait time unnecessary.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

The wax provides HALF of the seal, the other half is the outlet nipple pressing against the felt ring. The ring by itself is too thin to make the seal.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: Wheelchair (IL)

Personally, we always recommend the Zurn Neo-Seal or JR Smith gaskets for new installs and repairs. They are both more expensive then wax gaskets designed for "wall hung" closet applications.
Both Zurn Industries and American Standard, suggest the woven material for their toilets.

Hope this helps, rather then confuses.
Best Wishes

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: sgull (AK)

Here's a pic of the particular situation with one particular toilet, where it seems the nipple extends quite a bit further from the wall then it should. Also for whatever reason the nipple seems cocked or uneven, not plumb.
[i207.photobucket.com]
When we first pulled this toilet it had no backup washers on the carrier bolts, and they'd used a regular plain wax gasket for the seal. We're getting ready to reinstall next, making sure to utilize backup washers next to the nuts on the two lower carrier bolts as well as the top left one. And we're gonna use the Zurn foam gasket that's been mentioned.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

The nuts should be flush with the surface of the wall, so that the washers then give the 1/16-1/8" spacing from the wall surface. If you measure the depth of the toilet's recess, add 1/8", then subtract either 1/2" for the felt or 3/8" for the neoprene gasket, that will be the dimension the pipe should project from the wall. It has been a while, and not all toilets are the same, but if memory serves me correctly, it comes out to be about 3/8-1/2" projection. You have a little more leeway with the wax or neoprene because they can be compressed beyond the standard amount.



Edited 1 times.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: dlh (TX)

when i was doing commercial construction we set the wall hung flanges at 1/4" out from the finished wall. there is a little leeway +/- but usually 1/2" is pushing the outer limits

the flange looks a bit far out from the wall and is most likely the reason for the nuts and washers to be so far from the wall. any closer and they will probably crack the toilet with only 2 cap nuts installed

- - - - - - -

PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: sgull (AK)

The carrier nipple in this case, as seen in the picture, projects a good inch beyond the wall surface, and is definitely cocked somewhat, an uneven distance from the wall around its circumference. We did manage to remount the toilet solidly and securely and with the spongy Zurn gasket the seal seems apppropriately tight and good. However, because of the nipple extending out that excessively, our backup nuts (with washers!) had to be adjusted out accordingly, with the backside of the nuts (instead of front side) approximately flush with the wall. So it ends up being a 'funky' installation, with an unacceptably large gap between the back of the toilet and the wall surface.
Seems to me the wall should probably be opened up and the carrier situation behind it there evaluated and probably all re-done so the nipple would project out correctly.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

The nipple is screwed into the carrier, sometimes with a "locknut" but usually not. IF you can get it to turn, you can screw it in as far as necessary. Because of the way a carrier is constructed, the bolts and pipe HAVE to be on the same angle, so if the nipple is crooked, the bolts should be also.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: Wheelchair (IL)

AMEN SGULL. Classic Murphy's Law. I agree that the wall carrier is not properly installed or the wall is crooked. Adjustments will only make the issue worse.

Best to open and re-install if the customer will allow it. Do it right and it will last forever.....
Best Wishes

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: sgull (AK)

Likely then that the bolts are somewhat crooked too. Didn't take a level to them to check, but could. The toilet when mounted isn't at all noticeably unlevel to naked eyes. I imagine the carrier has perhaps somehow shifted to this slanting orientation probably due to sloppy installation in the first place or who knows. You can notice in the picture that there's a horizontal line up above on the wallpaper there. The wall in the area below it right there is out of plumb, the 'plane' of the wall changes there for some reason.
As far as attempting to screw the nipple in further, I seriously doubt it would budge. I'm almost certain its been in that position for 35 years now. I was thinking if I wanted to try I could put a chain wrench on it and see if I could get it to turn. But even if it did turn it would continue to be at that odd cocked angle, unless the carrier was straightened up right first.
Thank you to everyone here for the helpful input.



Edited 1 times.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

The way most carriers are installed it would be IMPOSSIBLE to straighten it out.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

"Reinstalling it" might involve breaking the feet out of the floor, and if they are the "cantilever" ones which extend forward, that means removing tile also.



Edited 1 times.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: sgull (AK)

If it's basically impossible well then I suppose it can just stay the way it is forever.



Edited 1 times.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

The alternative is to either unscrew and reinstall the pipe nipple, or break it out, (it is cast iron), and cut a new one (it will be plastic) to size and install it. Then cut, or adjust the bolts to the new dimension.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: LemonPlumber (FL)

In this case I would grind !set as it is !surface the nipple.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: dlh (TX)

i would cut or grind the nipple back to 1/4" from the finished wall and set the toilet properly.

it is possible that the mounting rods are bent behind the wall. to find that out i would try to unscrew one. if they are not bent the the carrier is set properly and the nipple is probably cross threaded

- - - - - - -

PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

There is NO WAY a cast iron nipple could be cross threaded and NOT leak. IT would have gone in about a 1/4 turn and frozen.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: dlh (TX)

i dont remember what it is called but there is a pipe dope out there that hardens fast and a 1/4 thread is all you need for no leaks on a carrier nipple

- - - - - - -

PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: hj (AZ)

J R SMith sends Permatex, but 1/4 turn would neither seal properly or work for a connection. Besides anyone installing a carrier nipple, or any thread for that matter, would quickly realize that when installed properly it screws in as far as necessary by hand, and if it only turned a 1/4 turn, they were not doing it correctly.

Post Reply

 Re: gasket wall hung toilet
Author: dlh (TX)

true

- - - - - - -

PLUMBERS "Protecting The Health Of The Nation"

Post Reply





Please note:
  • Inappropriate messages or blatant advertising will be deleted. We cannot be held responsible for bad or inadequate advice.
  • Plbg.com has no control over external content that may be linked to from messages posted here. Please follow external links with caution.
  • Plbg.com is strictly for the exchange of plumbing related advice and NOT to ask about pricing/costs, nor where to find a product (try Google), nor how to operate or promote a business, nor for ethics (law) and the like questions.
  • Plbg.com is also not a place to ask radiant heating (try HeatingHelp.com), electrical or even general construction type questions. We are exclusively for plumbing questions.

Search for plumbing parts on our sponsor's site:




Special thanks to our sponsor:
PlumbingSupply.com


Copyright© 2023 Plbg.com. All Rights Reserved.