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Author:
ciscokid (MN)
Hello
This is my first time posting. I have an issue where none of the toilets (4 all together) in my house will hold water in the bowl. They all flush just fine, they all fill the bowl just fine, but within 3 or so minutes the water has decreased to a very small amount in the bowl. I noticed this problem this morning. Last night we had 60 mile an hour winds, so i was wondering if the storm could have done something. Today the winds are 35 mph sustained with gusts of 60 mph. My daughter has complained about the bathtub in the basement bath not draining well, but that has been going on for awhile with no toilet issues. My house isn't even 6 months old, we built new last summer and moved in 9/28. Any advice of what to look for would be helpful and appreciated. Thanks!
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Author:
packy (MA)
thats a tough one.. high winds blowing across the vent pipe on the roof can cause oscillation of the water in the bowl which will cause the water in the bowl to slop out of the toilet internal trap.. BUT, the oscillation would be visible ???
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Author:
stuckinlodi (MO)
Since the water in the bowl drops so quickly (he said in only 3 minutes) then on a nice day I'd get on the roof and cover the plumbing vents with a plastic bag and rubber band/bungee cord. Then pour a bucket of water into the bowl slowly to fill it to the normal level, then wait and see if the bowl water still goes down. You will know in 3 minutes. If it still goes down then you know the outside wind and plumbing vents are not causing it and can move on to other possibilities.
If the water was being sucked out you'd think there would be gurgling or some other sound while it is happening.
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
Are they all the same make and model toilet? Did this just happen during high wind, or has it always been this way?
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Author:
ciscokid (MN)
Thanks for all of the replies, I really appreciate it.
It turns out that the issue was the wind outside. I was just kind of concerned something with the storm had caused the issue, but it was 40-60 MPH winds for about 36 hours after the storm. The plumber who built the house called me back finally, had me check a few things and asked a couple questions, and then determined the difference in the air pressure from outside to the inside was causing the vents on the roof to create a suction, draining the toilet bowl until the water level got down to the little hole in the drain of the toilet, breaking the "seal" so to speak. He came to this conclusion when I told him how fast the water drained (as the wind increased it would drain in 2 minutes), the fact that all of the toilets were experiencing the problem, and the fact that i could see the water move in the bowl, even when it had finished draining. I could see the water move even more when there was a strong gust of wind. He said I could maybe continue troubleshooting by removing one of the septic tank caps to see if that would break the suction, but I didn't have the guts to do that or climb on my 12/12 pitch roof to look at the vents. He said the vents probably were not plugged anyways due to me seeing the moving water in the bowl. The wind is gone now and the water level in the bowls is back to normal.
As a stupid home owner I learned something about plumbing and for that I am thankful. Thanks again!
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Author:
stuckinlodi (MO)
If this continues to happen now and then due to the normal windy conditions you have you could have vent covers installed over the roof vent pipes. These covers are normally used to keep rain and birds out of vent pipes and ducts for things like gas water heater exhaust, kitchen stove exhaust fan, etc. But they would also reduce the effect the wind has on your toilet bowl water. Another idea is to add a 180* bend pipe (gooseneck) that has a screened inlet so that the vent pipe opening is now pointed downward. Neither of these would interfere with the plumbing vent pipe from doing its job venting your drain pipes.
It all depends on how big of an annoyance it becomes. With the water sucked out like that you then have to waste a flush just to add water to the bowl whenever you want to use the toilet. And if the wind is blowing that means you have about 3 minutes to do your business, otherwise the bowl can get skid marks. Not pretty.
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Author:
packy (MA)
a properly vented plumbing system does not have toilets syphon when the wind blows.
think about it..
if there were a negative pressure strong enough to suck water from the toilets, it would also suck out every other trap in the house.
any negative pressure caused by wind blowing over the stack will suck air from the toilet vent pipe not draw water from the bowl.
[chestofbooks.com]
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Author:
stuckinlodi (MO)
When the wind blows across the top of a house and tries to pull air up thru the plumbing vent pipes where does that makeup air come from that moves upward in the plumbing vent? Does it come in from the street sewer system, or from other rooftop vents and the air just circulates thru the drain lines? On houses that have a whole house trap no air could come into the home drain pipes, but most homes nowadays don't have whole house traps.
Since this person had all 4 toilets in home lose water quickly (less than 5 minutes) then the wind definitely can do this. It may be a combination of his home's rooftop orientation and rooftop vent locations. Does that mean there is something less than ideal about this person's drain plumbing? Would homes that combine many vent pipes in the attic into one rooftop vent penetration be more likely to have this happen?
I wonder if it will become common-place to just have all plumbing vent pipes end in the attic space with AAV's attached to the top of the pipe? Every pipe going thru a roof is a potential rain leak, it doesn't look attractive to have all those pipes visible, that's why they are usually on the backside of a roof. If AAV's are reliable enough why wouldn't that be a better way to go?
PS> thanks for link to that book, enjoyable reading for a plumbing fan, better than anything on tv.
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