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Author:
Trilan (CA)
Hello
First off, my apologies for some of my incorrect terminology.
I am in the process of trying to find a bathtub to buy. I visited a manufacturer and found one I really like. 66x32x20 fiberglass/acrylic, end drain and skirted. One feature I really would like to have is the integral overflow drain - or maybe its called a liner drain - either way, I like it because it will give me an extra 1-2" of soaking depth, and since I'm tall this would be a nice feature.
The technician told me while I was looking at the tub that I had to tell my contractor that the P-Trap must be directly over the drain (end drain) and could not be over where it normally would be if it had a normal vertical PVC overflow drain. I asked him why that was, and he told me my contractor would understand.
The issue is; I live in a high rise condo with 9" concrete floors and MY P-trap is under the slab in the unit below. It can't be moved.
I drew a diagram of my pluming which showed that the drain of the tub would be, 9" from the wall, the pipe would have to travel 6" horizontally, then 9" down through a hole in the concrete to the P-trap. I tried to send the diagram to the technician who makes the tubs to ask him if, even thought I was not DIRECTLY over the P-trap, if my setup would still work. He refused to look at the picture. But he did reiterate that if the P-trap was not directly over the P-Trap it would not work. But would not explain to me why it would not work - no matter how many times I asked him.
When I did get ahold of my contractor, he didn't understand why the manufacturer was saying "if it's not directly over the trap, it will not work". I also asked, the head plummer of my condominium, A developer/builder friend of mine, and a friend who always seem to know what he's talking about and they all could not see why the the drain has to be directly over the trap when using an overflow drain that is integrated into he curve of the tub.
So I'm left wondering: Are the 4 people who are telling me that there should not be a problem installing this kind of a tub in my location right and the technician who makes the tub wrong, or is it the other way around?
Once again: The water would drain out of the tub then immediately, turn 90 degrees and go 6 inches before turning 90 degrees again and then fall 9" into the P-trap, before falling again about 3 feet to the 6" main drain line.
I guess my question really is: Why is the technician saying what he is saying? He wont explain it to me, but he is saying it for a reason. I'm just trying to understand where he coming from. The people I asked seem to think it would work, but why does he think it will not work? Why would an integral drain be so different from a regular drain?
I appreciate any input!!!! Thank you
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
steve (CA)
Who manufacturers the tub? Is there room under the tub to run the horizontal drain pipe? With the offset piping, cleaning the drain with a snake might be an issue. If there's room to run a horizontal pipe, could a tee be installed where the drain drops down to the trap and a cleanout be installed off the top of the tee? Maybe extending the cleanout up to be accessible from the other side of the drain end wall?
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Author:
packy (MA)
i think the sales person had too many martini's for lunch.
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Author:
Wheelchair (IL)
Is this a Do It Yourself'er project or are you using a licensed plumber? Remember, your mistakes, will affect others in your condo complex if not properly completed.
Best Wishes
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Author:
hi (TX)
pluming can always be altered / changed to meet current needs..
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Author:
Trilan (CA)
Thank you for the replies.
The tub is a "Sydney" made by Hydrosystems. There is room under the tub to run the horizontal drain. There is a well cut out of the slab which extends 12" from the wall and drops down 6".
The center of the drain on the Sydney is located 9" from the wall. The the center of the hole in the slab is 3" from the wall. The Horizontal pipe (from the previous tub) is about 6" long and is just under the level of the floor.
Here is the URL to a diagram I drew of how the pluming would look with the Sydney tub. By tub would be in the Unit on the top right:
[www.dropbox.com]
Or maybe this works
www.dropbox.com/s/z4ilhswmrp469pn/IMG_3035.JPG?dl=0
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Author:
packy (MA)
i don't understand wjat the pipe in the center marked 'overflow' does? maybe it is a vent rather than an overflow?
in any case, what you propose to do is fine. use long sweep 90's if possible.
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Author:
steve (CA)
Packy, the tub has integral overflow like a lav sink.
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Author:
Trilan (CA)
Thanks for the reply!
It may be a vent not an overflow. I asked once what is was for and was told it is filled with air and not water/waste.
The long sweep 90s might fit since there will not be a need for the PVC to T up to the overflow. I'll ask my contractor. Thanks!
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Author:
hj (AZ)
The overflow is integrated into the "skin" at the end of the tub and curves around to the drain opening, just like a lavatory with an overflow. The drain has an opening in the side for the overflow water to enter it, and the drain drops straight down to the "P" trap. Having the P trap anywhere else would require that you offset the drain to the new location.
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Author:
packy (MA)
steve, his drawing shows what appears to be a vent but he labeled it an overflow. that is what i was puzzled about..
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Author:
Trilan (CA)
Hj,
Are you saying, based on my diagram, that a tub with the overflow integrated into the skin would not work in my location?
I was able to follow what you said up to "Having the P trap anywhere else would require that you offset the drain to the new location"
Or are you saying it would work, but the p-trap would need to be offset from the drain - in my case by about 6"?
Thanks
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Author:
North Carolina Plumber (NC)
The problem with off setting the drain before the trap, in addition to creating a difficult snaking arrangement, is that any horizontal piping before the trap will become coated inside with soap scum, hair and skin particles, and other nasty substances, since this is before the trap, there will be no water seal or odor barrier. Any odor given off by the substances found in that pipe will come right up thru the drain into the bath room. I'm not saying for sure that'll you'll smell it, but it certainly is a possibility. I could see using 2 45's stacked vertically to make the offset if it's close enough, but I'd say it's a no-no to use 2 90's.
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Author:
Trilan (CA)
North Carolina Plummer thank you for the reply.
That makes a lot of sense. The tube that was just pulled out has the same configuration as the one I drew in my diagram and there didn't seem to be any issues with smell - which is a good sign. So in the case of a regular overflow drain (PVC straight down to the Ptrap) it seemed to work in my location.
The manufacturer told me also that was not a problem if I ordered the regular style overflow.
But if I ordered the linear overflow, with the overflow drain running embedded in the skin down to the drain at the bottom of the tub, the P-trap MUST be directly under the drain.
For the life of me, I can't see why if it works with a regular PVC overflow, and a drain that goes horizontal 6" why it would not work with the overflow integrated into the skin - also with a 6" horizontal. The only difference would be the overflow in one, goes straight down to the P-trap and connects to the one end of the 6" horizontal and in the other case the overflow hugs the skin and connects the other end of the 6" horizontal near the drain. I can't see how anything would work differently. But the tech and the company seems to think there is a difference.
The simple solution would be to just get the regular style overflow and be done with it. But I really would like the extra 2 1/2" of soaking depth if it will work.
Thanks again!
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Ideally, the trap should be under the drain, but if it is not, then pipes have to be arranged to go from the trap to the drain, (which can take up a lot of room.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
to use a "regular overflow" there would have to be a hole in the tub, which would go through the integral overflow it it had one. Maybe they make two versions of the tub.
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