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Author:
sum (FL)
I would like to cancel a bathroom. Basically re-purpose the space.
That space used to be a "Florida room" but the previous owner turned it into a bathroom. Did not pull a permit, all substandard unsafe DIY work. So I am going to reverse the process and turn it back into a Florida room.
That means I would need to terminate a tub drain, a floor drain, a toilet drain, a vent stack and a lav drain off it. All PVC.
The cold supply line I intend to extend further to the exterior wall and turn it into a hosebib on the outside.
The hot supply line I know where it tee offed so I can cut back and sweat in a cap.
The lav drain can be cut back to the wall and cement in a PVC cap.
What do I do with the tub, floor and toilet drains at the floor level? I will need to remove the floor tiles, but I can't think of a way to terminate these drains that make them water tight and still flushed with the concrete slab.
If I use a mechanical plug with a wing nut it will protrude above the floor level.
I can't use any PVC caps because the concrete goes all the way to the pipe so there is no space on the outside of the pipe.
Can I use these knock out test caps and solvent weld them in?
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
It is NOT good practice, and oft against code, to leave 'dead ends' over 24" in length.
You should 'chop it up' and cap / plug at source.
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
NO WAY does that apply to drain lines.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
The 2003 IPC
Chapter 2: DEAD END. A branch leading from a soil, waste or vent pipe;
a building drain; or a building sewer, and terminating at a developed
length of 2 feet (610 mm) or more by means of a plug, cap
or other closed fitting.
The 2003 IPC
704.5 Dead ends. In the installation or removal of any part of a
drainage system, dead ends shall be prohibited. Cleanout extensions
and approved future fixture drainage piping shall not
be considered as dead ends.
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2006 Virginia Code 704.5 PROHIBITED
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Illinois Water & Sewer Code
"Dead End": A pipe that is terminated at a developed distance of 2 feet or more by means of a plug or other closed fitting, except piping serving as a cleanout extension to an accessible area. (See Appendix B.Illustration K.) PROHIBITED
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HOWEVER:
North Carolina is more liberal, they permit:
SECTION 2013 - MISCELLANEOUS 2013 (a) - DEAD ENDS In the installation of any drainage system, dead ends longer than 5’ shall be prohibited
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etc, etc, etc
GOOD PRACTICE STILL PREVAILS _ NO DEAD ENDS OVER 24"
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
So put a "Top Cap" into the opening and call it a cleanout. Much faster than breaking the floor to comply with a useless regulation.
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Author:
sum (FL)
I will not be chopping it up.
The inspector is not making me do that either.
Some background information. The guy erected an illegal gazebo with a sink and toilet in the backyard. Then he ran a sewer line from the gazebo to this illegal bathroom. By the time the sewer line get to this illegal bathroom the grade is too low so he installed a sump pump, then into this illegal corner bathroom, then from there downstream to the rest of the house.
GAZEBO ----> BURIED SEWER LINE ---> SUMP PUMP ---> ILLEGAL BATHROOM ---> ORIGINAL BATHROOM ---> ORIGINAL KITCHEN etc...
I have already demolished the gazebo. When I applied for the demo permit the city required separate electric, water and sewer disconnect permits. For the water supply line to the gazebo, the plumbing inspector made me trace back to the source, where that supply line was teed off, and cut it off there and capped. For the sewer line from the gazebo to the pump I disconnected and capped both ends. I was afraid he would make me remove the sump pump or dig up the sewer line which was buried under soil about 2-3 feet. He didn't, he allowed me to leave it abandoned and just told me to cover it with dirt and forget about it.
So now I am getting to this illegal bathroom. To remove the drain pipes I would have to cut up the 4" thick reinforced concrete slab in that 12'x10' space. Then I have to cut a trench about 40' long where the line leads to the original bathroom. I already asked the inspector and he said it's OK to abandon the drains. He is also OK for me to repurpose the supply line by extending it turning it into a hosebib. Right now my plan is to break up all the tiles and find a way to cap off - water tight seal all these drains. Then I will locate where the line leads to the original bathroom and if the inspector says I need to terminate that line I will open a hole in that bathroom to terminate the line, making that entire illegal bath group one big dead end. I don't plan on removing the pipes.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
Abandoned piping not connected at either end is NOT dead end(s).
Runs of connected piping not serving a fixture capped on the end are dead end(s).
You do not have to chop and remove the piping, merely find the 'source' and cap there, abandoning the dead piping in place.
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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
sum (FL)
I know this bathgroup runs to another bathroom 40' away. That bathroom will be renovated and slab cut there - eventually, then I will cap the pipe leading to there.
Right now my tasks are focused on this bathroom, and that's why I want to cap all the openings here. Eventually the entire branch would be dead including the root. But I won't move to the other bathroom for another two months. Even if I cap that source now I still will cap all the dead tips of the branch.
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Author:
sum (FL)
I wonder how thick the 3" or 4" plugs are. If they are 1/4" thick then they will stick up 1/4" above the slab. Unless I use an inside pipe cutter and shave off say 1/2" of pipe.
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Author:
steve (CA)
Sum, those plugs are spigot(same as pipe), so you would need an open fitting to glue those into. Are you needing to glue into a pipe, over a pipe or into a fitting?
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Author:
packy (MA)
looks like i gave the wrong info to sum... as my old italian uncle would say "scusa you me"..
anyway, if they are to be terminated in the future, cram some newspaper in them leaving 3-4 inches of space on top and pour in some soupy mixed, thin set mortar.
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Author:
sum (FL)
steve,
I have a floor drain, a tub drain, a toilet drain on the floor, and a 2" vent stack with a lav trap arm inside a wall cavity to be terminated.
The 2" vent stack is made easy due to the insane DIY work they did. It didn't even penetrate the roof, it ended in the attic space with an AAV. So I will just cut the stack about 3" off the floor slab and remove the stack and lav connection, and glue a 2" cap over it.
The three other floor openings I am concerned about. I will be removing the bathroom tiles and put new tiles over and so I would prefer to terminate flush with the floor slab.
Let me get some pictures that may be easier.
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Author:
sum (FL)
Packy I was also thinking using concrete mix may be the most "universal" solution.
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Author:
Pipe runner (AZ)
"anyway, if they are to be terminated in the future, cram some newspaper in them leaving 3-4 inches of space on top and pour in some soupy mixed, thin set mortar."
NOT if the inspector is going to take a look!! and I know from reading previous posts Sum you are ALL about the code. Gluing on a PERM cap is the correct thing to do but I'm a ruler bender sometimes too
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