Hello,

I'm having some trouble with my well pump. Over the last few wks we've noticed the pressure has been waning. This is a common occurrence when I have to change my sediment filters, but today while the shower was running the water stopped completely.

Pump is Goulds 7GS05422C, 1/2 hp, 230V, 2W, 10STG 4" pump, installed new on 8/2008
Franklin Submersable Motor Control, 1/2 hp, 4.8 Amp, Date C89
Pump switch is 40/60 lbs, with Duracell DP-42-2 blue diaphragm pressure tank. Approx 20g.

The pump usually fills the tank and pressurizes it from 40-60 very quick - under 1 min. Checking it this morning the pressure rises very VERY SLOW! Even shutting off the pressure tank the pressure doesn't immediately max out and shut off as it should. I can hear some slow water flow in the tank, and when I turn off the power, the noise stops, so the pump is doing something. However - the REALLY odd thing is that when I remove the cover for the Motor Control (which disconnects the capacitor and I though disabled the pump) I STILL hear the noise! So the pump is still pumping very slowly without power?? I used to hear the capacitor click in when the pump came on, but now I do not.

Also a few days ago my pump area has a puddle on the floor. There are no obvious leaks and I hadn't gotten to look at it yet. This area frequently has wet spots due to high humidity and condensation, but this was more water than that.

Any ideas what it could be? I can DIY just about anything, I just have to know what is wrong.

Thanks

Is the tank holding it's pressure after you disconnect the power ? The sound could be water going back outside or back into the well if there happens to be a leak.

The sound is very low, and it stops with the 'light switch' that turns on/off the pump. Plus there is a check valve that should prevent water gong back down the pipe.

The puddle keeps coming back but there is nothing leaking! I may have to set up a lawnchair and watch it for an hour to try and see where its coming from.

You seem to be describing a leak somewhere in the system.

Hhhmmm.. yeah, I have a theory. If the water pipe was cracked just outside my house, such that at 42 lbs it starts leaking... that would explain why my pressure never gets above that number and also why the puddle keeps forming. My cement basement floor has cracks where water has bubbled up from in the past - every 5th yr or so in the spring with the snow thaw and heavy rain. The water table pushes it up through my floor cause the ground is still frozen and cant absorb it.

So I get plenty of water with pump on, presure tank 'disabled' and drain valve open, cause there's no pressure in the system and the pump can easily push it through the open system. But closing the drain valve builds up the pressure which starts a leak at 42 lbs, just enough to saturate the ground near my basement wall and slowly seep up through my floor and keep my pressure from getting any higher.

Does that make sense? I'm not sure I like this theory - its not $2K (from 2008) to replace the pump, but it does mean digging through 6 ft of earth to find a leak/crack 'somehwere'?!?!?!?

It does make sense. Low pressure- slow leak, increased pressure- faster leak.

Well, I think my theory proved correct. Floor dried up as I turned the pump off all last night and this morning. But this afternoons test (pump on for 4 hrs, couldn't get above 42 lbs) produced WATER on the floor! So I'm convinced it is a cracked/broken pipe just outside the foundation as we've had no rain recently. I'm sure its leaking all the time, but if the pump isn't on, it will leak until the pressure in the pipe from the pump to my house abates and then it just sits. Which is why the floor dried up when I shut the pump off all night/morning. The check valve right inside the house keeps the house water from going back into that pipe and leaking out.

So tmrw is digging day. It would be 5-6 ft down to dig it out from outside the house. But this pipe is also right next to basement walkout stairs w//Bilco doors. I could take out the wooden stairs and break through the concrete block in that little 'pit' to reach where the pipe enters the house. I just don't know how close/far it actually is away from the foundatino wall as its hard to judge how much saturation the ground needed in order to push up through my floor. But its got to be close because my house is on a slight hill and thw water pipe goes downhill all the way to the well - losing maybe 30-40 ft in elevation. And we all know water only goes downhill...

So before I start I wanted to ask what kind of pipe should I use to patch it? A 1 ft piece of the same pipe? (its 45 yrs old; I assume I can still buy this coiled black poly?) Or should I use Sched 80 PVC? I've been wanting to redo some of my piping so would prefer if something plastic and threaded came through the basement wall. My hard and acidic water eats through galvanized and I wanted to go one size bigger where I can to increase flow.

I only use poly for underground water. I specify heavier wall thickness (200 PSI) for underground and only use SS or brass insert fittings.

Well I hope your guys check in on Saturdays and that you like unexplained mysterious mysteries! I am baffled!

I decided to go through my outside stairs 'pit' instead of down 6 ft from outside. Couple hrs later, pipe going through the wall is exposed. No apparent leak. Dirt around the area is damp but not saturated as I expected from a leak. My pump still maxes at 42 lbs and after it stays on for hrs, my floor has puddles. Where is it coming from!!?!??

I dd solve one mystery - the Pump Control box is completely bypassed. I knew I heard the capacitor or its switch hum when the pressure switch kicked on yrs ago, but the old pump must have been a 3 wire one that used the box. When they replaced it 7 yrs ago, the yellow wire is capped off and there are no connections to the box control switch at all. So that Control Box is now just a junction box to connect wires from the on/off pressure switch and the black/red to the pump.

So I have no control box and no matter if my pump is slow/shot/check valve broken, or if my pressure tank is ruptured or whatever I STILL get water on my floor. There HAS to be a leak! And I think it HAS to be a big one as it keeps the pump running forever and cant get above 42 lbs, right? How far away from my house could it be to not continue down hill and instead bubble up through my floor?

I can read the pipe as it exists my house - "Triangle 100 PSI Hi-Flexible Pipe" - probably not the best but I dont know what was available 45 yrs ago. Its lasted this long...

One almost needs to be on-site from this point forward in determining how to proceed. The leak must be close to the house since it shows on the floor. If it was too far removed from the house, it would show up at ground surface.

Yeah, thats my theory too. Unfortunately it wasnt right outside the wall (where I dug through the stair 'pit' wall. So I rented a small back hoe and will start digging tmrw. It cant be that far away from the house...

Oh boy, what a day! Started at Home Depot at 7:30AM and finished with the backhoe around half past midnight. I'm sure the neighbors weren't happy but that rental had to go back this morning! I first started with checking in the wall for the leak by breaking around where the pipes went through. All dry in there.

So after 5 hrs of digging - I FINALLY found the leak! It was probably 8 ft of pipe away from the house but actually only 2 ft from the corner where the leak seeped into the basement. The piping takes a very circuitous route to the well - 2 huge turns bending back towards the house before it goes the opposite direction and down the hill to the well. NOT what I expected when I started digging. I can only think that when the house was built there was some huge rock shelf that they didn't feel like dynamiting so they just rerouted the pipe around it.

The pipe where it leaked was resting on some VERY hard, blackish clay, embedded with VERY sharp rocks. It's a layer in the soil and a BAD one for pipes. After 43 yrs it finally cut through and killed my water pressure.

The piping covering the wires was also broken but luckily there was no damage to the wires. It was a much thinner conduit. I used the same back poly to cover over the older piping of what I dug out so at least that section will be better protected. I also sleeved both water and electric using a 3" PVC through the cement block wall so they aren't cemented in place.

So we have water pressure, but now I just have HUGE mess to clean up... Thx for helping and I hope no-one else has to deal with something like this

Not to rub salt in your wounds but... at 43 yrs. of age on the pipe and rocky soil, what do you think the odds are for more future leaks?

Yeah, I hear ya... but the alternative (replacing the entire pipe) would have required a professional and thousands of $$$ that I don't have.

I feel you on the thousands of $$$$ thing. I would locate the leak, when found get a compression coupling. You can choose a 1 inch, has either galvanized or in your case, PVC. They work excellently and should hold up for you. Cudos on renting the backhoe! We dug by hand. Booo.... but let me know how it goes. I am the one who posted a "what is this?" On the forum. Lots of luck!