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Author:
packy (MA)
cleanout directly below the toilet is not necessary but is not a violation.
all looks good to me..
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Author:
ignignokt (AR)
I must be misunderstanding the section on cleanouts. I don't have much experience snaking pipes, and none with the commmercial versions. I always thought they could get a snake through the toilet. The good news is that it's not glued. Here's why I'm confused:
708.3.4 Base of stack.
A cleanout shall be provided at the
base of each waste or soil stack.
That's from the 2006 AR code:
[www.healthy.arkansas.gov]
Doesn't that qualify as a soil stack? Also, what about my 2" waste stack? I'm pretty sure I don't need that cleanout since everything can be snaked through the p-traps:
708.7 Minimum size.
Cleanouts shall be the same nominal
size as the pipe they serve up to 4 inches (102 mm). For pipes
larger than 4 inches (102 mm) nominal size, the minimum size
of the cleanout shall be 4 inches (102 mm).
Exceptions:
1. āPā trap connections with slip joints or ground joint
connections, or stack cleanouts that are not more than
one pipe diameter smaller than the drain served, shall
be permitted.
2. Cast-iron cleanout sizing shall be in accordance with
referenced standards in Table 702.4, ASTM A 74 for
hub and spigot fittings or ASTM A 888 or CISPI 301
for hubless fittings
One more thing. I read in one section that a cleanout was good for 100'. This confused me and still does:
708.3.3 Changes of direction.
Cleanouts shall be installed
at each change of direction greater than 45 degrees (0.79
rad) in the building sewer, building drain and horizontal
waste or soil lines. Where more than one change of direction
occurs in a run of piping, only one cleanout shall be required
for each 40 feet (12 192 mm) of developed length of the
drainage piping.
So if it's 40' and I have a 70 to 80' run on my main 4" line do I need to put in another cleanout besides the one outside my house? My 4" main line makes a "c" shape. One long sweep elbow and then a drop through a san-t transitioned to cast iron to the septic tank. I believe it transitions again right before the septic as the cleanout is pvc/dwv.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
Palm329 (VA)
I could be wrong but I believe a "stack" is a vertical drain pipe which begins at the main drain pipe which exits the building towards the sewer, and runs up and exits through the roof as a vent.
Most houses around me have 2 roof vents - one 3" or 4" "main stack" and one 2" "secondary stack". The main stack runs up beside the bathrooms, the secondary stack runs up at the kitchen.
Connected horizontally to the stacks are branches, perhaps each bathroom has a 3" branch starting at the toilet flange and running more or less directly to the stack. The design of the house normally places the bathroom fixtures in the logical positions relative to the stack to enable easy and concealed plumbing. (Pipes in stud and joist bays, etc)
For each bathroom, the sink and bathtub/shower drains connect to the 3" branch between the toilet and the stack. The sink needs a 1.5" drain pipe, the tub 2". (Well tub 1.5" minimum and shower 2" min)
The only complex part is the venting above the sink and bathtub. Depending on the architecture of the house and especially what is upstairs from the bathroom, u gotta do it different ways.
But again, the run of the pipes and electrical should have been pre-planned by the architect before the fixtures and walls were placed in the bathroom. This plan would have factored in things like pipe size and therefore unvented run distances, and everything else.
Are you building a new bathroom from scratch? What is directly above this bathroom? If you have open, unfinished attic, it won't be so bad.
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Author:
ignignokt (AR)
This is a remodel. The house is over 100 years old. It had one bathroom. The laundry room and kitchen sink grey water was piped out to the garden. It was framed with super tough wood. Even my nail gun has trouble penetrating the wood at times (I got tired off bent and broken nails). There is another bathroom that I've added above, but the first floor attic is next to thhe second floor bathroom and the second floor attic is above the second floor bathroom... confused? Anyway, because it's a remodel it causes me to make some decisions that aren't apparently clear. When I started, I was just going to add a bathrroom upstairs so I gutted the exterior wall in the downstairs bathroom to add the drain and water pipes. All was fine. Then about six months later I decided to do a complete remodel (electric, plumbing, etc.) I gutted the downstairs bathroom because it had to be expanded to accomadate a standard tub (original was cast iron and under 40" and I added a closet as well. Then I realized I needed another bathroom downstairs as my mother is disabled and living with me and she needed her own bathroom. So now there will be 2 regular and 1 3/4's bathroom. I've got the electrical done and now I'm on the plumbing. I may be in over my head.
My understanding of a stack is that it's vent or drain that comes off the main line like a chimney (stack). Waste stack is grey water and soil stack is the nasty solid stuff and then you have vent stacks as well. I don't think you need a cleanout at the base of a toilet because you should be able to snake down the toilet itself into the 3 or 4" main line, but that's not what I'm reading in that section of code. Also, did you have any new suggestions on how to get the cleanout at the base of the 3" run? I think I'm just going to leave it out as it can only serve the sink.
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Author:
packy (MA)
terminology is sometimes confusing.
consider the 4 inch as the main drain.
anything that ties into a main drain is a stack.
anything that ties into a stack is a branch.
you have a cleanout just above where the toilet ties into the main. that tie in point is considered the base of a stack.
just to confuse you a little more... if a fixture (such as a toilet) can be removed to give access to a drain for the purpose of snaking, that qualifies as a clean out point.
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Author:
srloren (CA)
Technically a toilet may qualify as a clean out but who wants to spend $100 bucks to have a plumber remove a toilet to clean out a drain? That is just plain stupid. Now if you have no other choice, that's a different story. But for God's sake guys, think as if this was your home.
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Author:
packy (MA)
just explaining the code. my house has cleanouts and shut offs galore..
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Author:
Palm329 (VA)
My house only has cleanouts near the base of the "stacks", being the vertical pipes which run from below my basement floor all the way up thru the roof. That being said they run up between the bathrooms so the branches are no longer than 10'.
Just for the future, and for anyone else reading who is doing a remodel themselves, after the framing is done, first do the drain plumbing, then the vent plumbing, then the water supply pipes, then last the electric. Maybe do HVAC ducts before all of that. That is basically because the first items have less flexibility with regards to routing and angles and all that; can keep you out of trouble. Unfortunately I learned the hard way =)
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Author:
ignignokt (AR)
So keep the 3" cleanout at the base of the soil stack (toilet location). I just wanted to make sure since my understanding of the code calls for it, but some say it's not. One of my mother's caregivers was flushing baby wipes down the toilet until one day she created a blockage. I knew it had to be between her toilet and the guest bathroom so I had to cut into the main line with a reciprocating saw to snake them out. Good times! The caregiver should have been let go, but I kept her. I told her if there was another blockage she would be the one cleaning it out and she promised me she wouldn't flush them again.
If a cleanout is required at the base of each toilet that's going to be exspensive on my 4". I have a 4" cleanout glued on to a san-t, but it can only go one direction so I doubt I could use it there. I've already got a 3" test-t for the 3" stack coming from upstairs. I bet it's hard to snake 10' vertically. I didn't see an exception for the placement, but I've probably overlooked it I'll have pics posted to make sure it's correct before I glue it.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
ignignokt (AR)
@Palm329. HVAC last. It's the most fragile and can get crushed easier while you're trying to fit everything into place. That came from a friend of mine who's supposed to put the HVAC in for me. Ironically, he's a licensed plumber but he's too busy to help me atm. He has a new phone # and I can't contact him. I was hoping he would look all my work over and I was depending on him to do just that. Oh well. Our paths will cross eventually.
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