I started glueing things together and I had a bit of an alignment problem that got by me with my vanity drain/toilet wet vent. Originally I had it set up with two 45's, but I had to spend about an hour getting them off the wye because they weren't lining up like they did when they were dry fitted. If I understand wet venting correctly, I can have a horizontal run (hopefully). I messed around for about an hour trying to get different combinations to work (2 45's, 2 45's and a 22.5). In the end I just surrendered and this is what I came up with:




The tub drains into the wye from the right. The toilet is about 3 1/2' to the right of the 4" wye which is the start of the 4" run. Everything is glued but the 90 degree elbows above the 2" wye (is there a chemical that will dissolve the glue--I would imagine acetone would work, but it would probably damage the plastic as well).

Not code compliant, you have created a partial S-trap on the tub. You either need to put the wye horizontally downstream of the trap or use a vertical tee to catch the trap.

Looking at the picture again, you need to use a st.45 in that 4" X 2" as it lies, stack a tee directly on the st.45 to catch the tub trap and drop the lavatory into the top of the tee. Your getting close to being right.

Aarggghhhh! That 2" wye is glued. Looks like I'm going to have to break or cut it off. The only parts that weren't glued were the 90 deg elbows. Do you really think that it would siphon the water out of the p-trap like that? I"ll get the wye off and replace it with a sanitary-tee and a 45. What's the easiest way to get it off because I can't cut it? I used a hammer and a flat head screwdriver last night. Cutting will make it unusable because there won't be enough pipe left for a hub to fit on.

code calls for a cleanout at the base of every stack. the 2 inch lav drain is considered a stack.

I'll send an updated pic tonight after I get home.

I need someone to help me figure out how to add a cleanout and still be able to catch the traps from the tub and vanity. I've been messing around for at least an hour and came up with one solution that I'm fairly certain won't pass. Putting the cleanout at the base is the problem because of how low the tub drain needs to be. I have 14" and the tub trap can't be any higher than 7". If I put the wye horizontally (making a short stubby italicised T) I can add a cleanout to the left side and connect a second horizontal wye upside down to connect to the tub on the right and the lav on the top. It's ridiculous, but that's the only way I could fit a cleanout at the base and everything else. I know that won't pass code. I'm super tired and running on only 90 minutes of sleep. I'm sure there's a way, I'm just not seeing it. Also, am I required to add an additional 4" cleanout if I have a 90 degree turn in my main line/trunk? I put one in after the elbow, but my friend said I just wasted my money.


__/_____
/

I'm under UPC code where using a trap with a union serves in lieu of the base of stack cleanout. It seems to me that you could just use a cleanout tee in that horizontal section of the sink drain before it turns down into the 4" pipe. The extra cleanout you installed was not required, but sure will come in handy if you ever need to snake the pipe.

I almost forgot. There is another solution and that is to add another 4x2 wye just for the tub since it shouldn't be considered a vent and it can be snaked from the p-trap.



Edited 1 times.

I agree with you NCP, but they're saying the cleanout has to be installed at the base. All my tub and sinks have p-traps with unions. The one for the washing machine has a drain plug instead of a union. I have an extra 4x2 wye, but I'm hoping there's an easier way. I've got three 2' connections to my 4" line and one 3" connection. I need to buy a 3" cleanout, but I have plenty of 2" cleanouts. I hate to say it, but I'm guessing I'm going to have to add another 4x2 wye in order to get a cleanout at the base of the wet vent.

I don't think your double-wye cleanout idea will work, because I think the point of the stack cleanout is to allow the snake to be run backwards up the stack as well as down. I could be wrong on that.

Personally I'd just change the 2" wye to a sani-t and call it a day. Snake both branches (lav & tub) by removing the traps.

Also if you have the space, use long-sweep 90's for the two bends above the sani-t towards the lav.

That's exactly what I would do. Can anyone tell me if I definitely have to have a cleanout at the base if I can clean it through thr p-traps. AR 2006 code. I'll try to find it in my pdf tonight when I get home if no knows fof sure.



Edited 1 times.

I found the cleanout rule in AR code:

708.3.4 Base of stack.
A cleanout shall be provided at the
base of each waste or soil stack.

I couldn't find any exceptions like p-traps with unions, etc. So that means even if I split the two traps and have them each drain into a 4"x2" wye, both waste stacks will have to have a cleanout at the base. Here's some more layouts I played around with:




This last one won't pass (partial S trap and hard to snake).

How about something like this? Or if you need it to be less tall, shift the 4x2 wye to the left, install the C/O on the 45* angle of the wye and then 45* out of the C/O to the san tee?

I'll try it when I get home tonight, but everytime I tried to put a wye vertically it was too tall. One sanitary tee verticle was all I could fit in the 14". I might be able to go 15" by dropping the 4", but that would be as low as I can go and still have adequate fall. I hope it works because I'm looking at about $15 more in fittings if I have to split the two traps.

Hey where does that 4" pipe go to anyway? I had assumed it just a runs to your toilet in that bathroom group... In that case, maybe you can change the whole 4" branch into a 3" branch to shrink everything. Maybe pick up better modern toilet flush performance too?

Although, maybe packys assertion that your lav drain is a "stack" means my assumption is incorrect.

I went with 4" because I thought I'd have fewer clog issues. The start of the 4" run is a toilet. I used a 4" wye with a cleanout. The 2" drain to the vanity is my wet vent for tbe toilet. There's a 1 1/2" dry vent about 6' back for the tub. It will also give the toilet an assist. The tub is just too far back to share the 2" vent. I could almost get away with just a single 2" vent.

Dude I'm not a pro but I think that changed everything:

1. I believe with the new 1.6 gallon flush toilets 3" is better than 4". (Think less water on a small pipe means higher water level than a bigger pipe, therefore can flow more "material."

2. Because your tub drain is already vented separately to the right of this pic, you don't need the Sani-T, your 2" wye is correct.

3. Describe the wet vent as it goes up past your sink. Does this pipe go vertical and penetrate your roof directly? Or does it go up in your attic, then tie into a bigger vent pipe (the true stack)? I believe this is called a "revent". If this pipe does not go thru to the roof on its own, I can't see how this would be considered a "stack." Hopefully packy or another expert will weigh in on this.

It goes up straight verticle and through the roof. It first connects to an upright san-t for the sink to drain into and the pipe to go straight up to the attic where I tied the 1 1/2" inch tub vent to this 2" vent with another san-t. The 2" then goes straight through the roof with flashing.

I still need to add a cleanout to the base of the 2" vent. I'll post pics of the complete run in a bit.



Edited 2 times.

Here they are:







I was going to try to hit all fixtures with just one vent, but the straight arm from the tub is a little over 8' if I remember right. Also the code I was originally working from said I could only have a 5' run with 2" before I had to vent instead of 8'. I believe I could have made it work with just one vent, but I'm ok with two.



Edited 1 times.

Problem with the C/O in the newest set of pics. There needs to be 18" minimum clearance from the C/O opening(it can't be pointed at the floor when it's that close). Have you downloaded/read AR's requirements for C/Os? Are there any amendments to the IPC? The 2006 IPC allows a slip or ground joint trap connection to be used as a C/O. Though, it doesn't state how close to the "base of the stack" it needs to be.

It would be very difficult to snake that line with that opening only a few inches from the basement ceiling.

Can I extend it out with an elbow?

Here's the problem. It's all about how much space I have for fall/drop. The original codes I got were all wrong. They said 1/4" drop per foot without mentioning pipe diameter. I've since found that to be wrong. It's 1/8" for 3 and 4" pipe. Anyway, I gave it 1/4" drop so I can lower it down an inch or so. My original plan was to use an elbow with a 2" boot, but that wouldn't work either because even the copy of the code I had then said the cleanout had to be the same diameter as the pipe. I can fit a regular snake like you get at walmart in it but I have no experience with anything larger. The crawlspace I'm working in varies from 22 to 36" This is the 36" portion. The code says I have to have a cleanout at the base of a waste stack even though you should be able to put the snake straight down the toilet and get into the 4" line. I'm not sure why it even calls for one when you can do that (probably due to larger snakes, etc). I have a 4" cleanout located outside between my septic tank and house and the total run is under 100'. If I have to have a cleanout located on the 4" to the toilet what are your recomendations? I can remove the wye and use a san-t and a 90 degree elbow (I imagine it will have to be a long bend. I can put the cleanout on the side of the san-t. I used the wye because I saw this setup somewhere before, but they had more clearance. It was cheaper than a san-t ($7.50) and a long sweep elbow ($12). Those long seeps are expensive. The wye and 45 elbow were about $15.

I can lower the wye an inch and slap on a 45 degree elbow where the cleanout is currently located and place the cleanout on the end. The cleanouts in crawlspace will not be accessible from the outside (obviously) and my lack of experience with cleanout tools is a big issue here.

Steve, if I'm understanding you right, could I use something like a flexible coupling that could just be unscrewed for access? I imagine they carry 4" slip joints at Lowes I'll take a look, but if I can get a 45 degree elbow on that wye there would be 18' of clearance since it would be pointed towards the foundation wall.



Edited 3 times.

I've got to get more sleep before I post. Here's a link to the pdf:

[www.healthy.arkansas.gov]


Cleanouts are in section 708. The only mention of slip joints on p-traps is here:

708.7 Minimum size.
Cleanouts shall be the same nominal
size as the pipe they serve up to 4 inches (102 mm). For pipes
larger than 4 inches (102 mm) nominal size, the minimum size
of the cleanout shall be 4 inches (102 mm).
Exceptions:
1. “P” trap connections with slip joints or ground joint
connections, or stack cleanouts that are not more than
one pipe diameter smaller than the drain served, shall
be permitted.
2. Cast-iron cleanout sizing shall be in accordance with
referenced standards in Table 702.4, ASTM A 74 for
hub and spigot fittings or ASTM A 888 or CISPI 301
for hubless fittings.

So if I'm reading that correctly my p-traps with slip joints and unions should serve as a cleanout. So what I had before in my first picture should be fine since both sections of the wye have cleanouts on each change of direction, they're just not located at the base. I'm going to read between the lines and say that a I can elimminate the cleanout needing to be at the base of the stack as long as it's accessible through the p-traps. Unfortunately that doesn't solve my soil stack needing the cleanout adjusted.

So... can I leave the 2" drain/wet vent as it is, or do I need to get rid of the 2" wye and use a sanitary tee? Can I put a 45 degree elbow on the 4" wye and then add the cleanout? I think all I need to do is add the 45 to the 4" wye, but I'll wait to hear back. Thanks for everyone's help.



Edited 2 times.

Being that the wye in the wet vent is not also venting the bathtub, it can stay a wye. What is draining into the "too close" C/O pipe? If I was going to put a C/O there, I would use a combo tee(aka combo wye) with the C/O pointing straight out the back and side arm point straight up, instead of the 45* and wye.

Couldn't I get the same effect by adding about 6 to 8 mmore inches of pipe to the 45? The wye is already glued and I was going to try to pry the cleanout off. If not, I'll cut it off and go buy a combo.

Also, I need clarification on whether I can have the kitchen sink trap below the laundry trap from this thread:


[www.plbg.com]

Section 909.1.1 does not allow wet venting for fixtures other than bathroom fixtures. So, you would need to split the drain into two risers, one for the kit sink and one for the clothes washer. The vents from the two drains could join back together 6" above the flood level of whichever is higher(clothes washer box or kit sink/countertop.

LOL! I didn't know that either. I'm sure there's a logical reason for it, but to me that's just connecting to a stack... now if it was connecting to a horizontal pipe that had water flowing through it I could see it --like if I'd connected the sink trap to the straight arm after the p-trap on the laundry side. I understand why it would be classified as a wet vent, but I think an exception should be made due to where it connects (I know.... good luck with that). There I was hoping I was just going to have to lower the laundry p-trap a little and possibly raise the straight arm on the sink and swap the san-t connections.



It's like in the movie Highlander: "There can be only one." Only one fixture can have a dry vent with my set up.


Update: I just sketched it all out on paper and it looks like I may not have room for my double gang box for the lightswitch and receptacle as well. I may have to use a single for the light switch and put the receptacle down below for the washer. So I need a 2" wye and a 45 a 1 1/2" 90 and san-t.



Edited 2 times.

Seeing all the pics I would do the following at my house:

1. Change the toilet drain from 4" to 3".

2. Make the vent serving the tub my "stack" (penetrate the roof with this one). As this 2" stack passes the tub trap, pick up the trap arm with a 2x2x2 sani-t. Continue this stack down and immediately below the sani-t add a 2" "test-t" cleanout. Continue down and use a long-sweep 90 to bring this horizontal at the level of the toilet branch. This buys you some more height. Come alongside the toilet branch and join it with a 3x3x2 wye. Or, alternatively, join it with a 3x3x2 low-heel 90 if allowed. I'd avoid that myself.

3. For the sink, change the 2" pipe to 1.5", here code calls for 1.25" but allows one upsize to 1.5". Run it the same way via a sani-t. Run the 1.5" cent upward to attic then horizontal joining the 2" stack above tub. Run the sink drain down into crawl space and join the toilet branch from above using a 3x3x1.5 wye.

I think this solves everything.

I'm going over the code hoping to find some loopholes. Since this has it's own stack vent that's 1 1/2", couldn't I upgrade it to a 2" and then I would be connecting to a waste stack that would permit me 4 fixtures section 910.1. :

910.1 Waste stack vent permitted.
A waste stack shall be con-
sidered a vent for all of the fixtures discharging to the stack
where installed in accordance with the requirements of this sec-
tion.
910.2 Stack installation.
The waste stack shall be vertical, and
both horizontal and vertical offsets shall be prohibited between
the lowest fixture drain connection and the highest fixture drain
connection. Every fixture drain shall connect separately to the
waste stack. The stack shall not receive the discharge of water
closets or urinals.


Doesn't my laundry room set up meet this criteria or am I not understanding something? I think I can just switch out the 1 1/2" stack vent to a 2" and be compliant... hopefully?


If not, I'm looking at something like this:






Edited 3 times.

Palm329 your suggestions are wonderful, but that's way too many changes at this point. If it wouldn't be for the 2" hole in my roof and the glued fittings I'd probably just scrap it all. Right now I'm just planning to add a 45 degree elbow and about 6" of pipe and call it good. Out of curiousity, would I notice a big diffference if I went to 3" pipe just for about 8' and then transitioned to 4". The 4" has already been cut and laid out with 50% of it glued. This is just a case where I should have done more research before starting. A window I'd planned on eliminating has caused several of my problems as it limited the placement of the fixtures. Then they extended this room so I had to plumb it against the outer wall. I wanted to use the oppposite side of the bathroom, but there's a 6 to 8" thick foundation wall from thhe original unextended house right where you would need to place the toilet. I wish it was easier and I was more experienced. Thanks for your suggestions.

I was going to correct my post and then saw your newest pic. Yes, by venting the lower drain before it hits the stack, the upper drain can remain as is and tie the lower vent back in to the stack.

Does the cleanout for the laundry room need to be in the wall instead of at the base? I read that somewhere as well. I imagine it's an "either or". I'll try to find it in the code.

I might be adding a dishwasher as well. I believe my 1 1/2" vent is good. The drainage table rates a commbo sink, garbage disposal, and dishwasher as 2 dfu for drainage with an 1 1/2" p-trap. Washing machine is 2 dfu with a 2" p-trap. If the dishwasher is separate it's the same rating as a kitchen sink. So if I'm understnding correctly, 1 1/2" is good for 8 dfu and I'm only at 6 if the dishwasher is connected separate in an island. It will be super easy to go to a 2" now, but not so much in the next few days. Thanks again

I looked in the code, but couldn't find anything specific, but it sounds like it might have something to do with concealed pipes:

708.4 Concealed piping.
Cleanouts on concealed piping or
piping under a floor slab or in a crawl space of less than 24
inches (610 mm) in height or a plenum shall be extended
through and terminate flush with the finished wall, floor or
ground surface or shall be extended to the outside of the build
-
ing. Cleanout plugs shall not be covered with cement, plaster or
any other permanent finish material. Where it is necessary to
conceal a cleanout or to terminate a cleanout in an area subject
to vehicular traffic, the covering plate, access door or cleanout
shall be of an approved type designed and installed for this pur
-
pose.



Edited 1 times.

Is the area I circled the cleanout? It's either a cleanout accessible through the other side or they're wet venting something?

Palm329, I may switch to 3" just for this bathroom because I couldn't get anything unglued. I'm out another $15. The only pieces I can still use is the 4x2x4 wye and the 45. The cleanout cap is also still usable, but the 4x4x4 wye and cleanout are both done for. I can't change the vents, the 1 1/2" will still serve the tub and the 2" will serve the toilet and lav. How does the toilet connect to the 3" branch? I still need a cleanout on the soil stack. How about a 3x3x3 san-t placed above a long sweep 90? I can put the cleanout in the middle of the san-t. I'll make sure it has 18" of clearance.

@Steve. Here's what I came up with for the laundry room/kitchen:


The cleanout sticks too far out, hopefully I can put the cleanout under the floor. Plus you would have to move the washing machine if you were going to use a snake. I don't know any other way to get 18" of clearance unless it's below the floor. I could put a p-trap with a union on it? This one has a drain plug.

I'd use a 2" test tee instead of the san tee and female adapter, for the C/O.

+1 on the test tee. Smaller plus u can snake up and down.

Toilet just sits on the 3" line. 3" toilet flange straight down to proper depth then 90 long sweep sounds fine. Is a cleanout required on the toilet branch? I'm not sure

Just came back from Lowes with the parts. Got the test t with a flush cap so hopefully it will all fit inside the access panel now.

I bought a 3" test t for the toilet and a long sweep elbow. I need to buy three 2" test t's and take the others back (for the other stacks further down the line). They were out of 3x2x3 wyes so I bought a combo which will save me on a 45 elbow anyway. I might find the time before I go to bed to cut and size everything.

Wellllll... The only way to get a cleanout on the 2" appears to be the way I had it originally by using a 2" wye. The test t fits ontop the verticle branch and then I have to use a 90 street elbow to feed it the lav. The street elbow is almost touching the floor above it. I don't really need the cleanout anyway since the code for my state says I can use slip threaded p-traps as cleanouts. The soil stack cleanout will work great. I need to go buy a 4x3 reducing coupling.. I have a bushing, but I don't have anything with a hub to connect it to so I'd have to use a 4" coupling. I was really hoping it would fit with a san-t and a test-t.

This is getting too long. Here are pics of the the improvements:

Added 45's to make clearnce for water lines and flush mount test-t


3" closet with test-t cleanout and long sweep elbow

tub trap, lav trap/toilet wet vent


Here it is with a test-t squeezed on it. I'll have to lower the entire 4"/3" run by 1" and I won't be able to snake the tub trap at all since it's above it. If I place the test-t at the base I won't have enough fall for the tub trap. Should I add it or skip it?