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Author:
Alwaysfixing (NY)
Greetings. This is my first post. Here's a little background on my problem just so you know what I have for electrical and mechanicals.
I designed and installed all components for my 6-zone in-floor heating (including hot water priority zone) 18-years ago. Back then I had to become very familiar with each and ever component function. With the passage of time and the fact that I am not a plumber by trade. . .a lot of that knowledge "has gone down the drain".
I have all tech diagrams and spec sheets on the following components. . .
BOILER: Gas fired Slant Fin Sentry S-120 DP with Integral Drafthood
BOILER CONTROL: Honeywell L8148E
BOILER RELAY BOARD: Erie Boiler Boss SR601, 5-zone with the sixth dedicated to H2O priority
INDIRECT H2O MAKER: Amtrol Boiler Mate WH-7P
ZONE CIRCULATORS: Taco series 007's on all zones
Over the years I have replaced 3 of the six pumps and a 4th one yesterday (H2O zone) because it's been making bushing/bearing noise for the last 4-months and I thought it may be the source of my problem. (It turned out it was not). Other than making the early mistake of adding the recommended amount of Hercules boiler antifreeze that stripped off the nickle plating on my Sparko tempering valves and clogged up all four ( I have 4 zones tempered for floor heat and 2-zones for HW baseboard).
So then, let me state my problem with out overloading you with what I have done about it at this time. . .
My Amtrol relay clicks on to demand and a millisecond later my control panel priority relay clicks to respond to the call. . .but it ends there. . .the Honeywell boiler control and motorized Drafthood sit idle. However, it I crank up a t-stat on any of the heat zones, all works fine. I also inserted a new ice cube in the Z1 cube slot.
I read somewhere that this unresponsive action may be the result a problem between the zone control relay and the aqua stat due to a problem with the Amtrol t-stat. I did drop a test on the T1 terminals and it shows 24v
With a slight decrease on the clicking demand.
I sure could use a refresher course if anyone has knowledge of how I can fix it. . .i miss hot water, thankfully we can use the pool.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
packy (MA)
i would remove T1 and T2 as well as C1 and C2 from the amtrol. do the same for any one of the heating zones. put the amtrol wires onto that zone leaving the heating wires off. you should have hot water then. you don't need heat for a while so you have time to troubleshoot.
i suspect you will need an additional single zone to replace the malfunctioning priority zone connections.
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Author:
Alwaysfixing (NY)
Thank you, I tried your suggestion. I have to say it was a great troubleshooting idea. I rewired as per your suggestion on three other zone relays. . .but still no success. Still the same clicking results. This does lead me to believe that it is either the Honeywell aqua-stat or the Amtrol t-stat/probe. Clicking relay suggest that relay OK problem further down the line. I will follow through and let you know when I locate the problem.
Mike
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Author:
packy (MA)
next point is .. why do you have 24v at a "T" connection?
the number on the relay control you are connecting the 007 that is used for the amtrol. remove the wires from the amtrol temperature control that are connected to T1 and T2 and just jump T1 and T2. that should trip the ice cube and start the 007. if that works then the control on the amtrol is clicking but not calling..
before condemning the amtrol control, put the leads back on T1 and T2, find where the low voltage wire connects inside the amtrol control, remove them and touch them together. that should call the ice cube and fire the 007.
if it does then the control is bad. if it doesn't than the wire is bad.
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Author:
Alwaysfixing (NY)
Thanks for your patience.
I can't explain the 24v on my T1and T1 pair but that's what it reads with nothing on.
When you say T1 and T2 my controller has everything labeled in Paris both fit the T-stats and the C-terms I.e. C1 and C1. What I did was, I moved the b/w wires from C1 and C1 to another relay labeled C4 and C4 and the t-stat wires from T1 and T1 to T4 and T4 block. I tried this on two other zones term blocks as well, always removing other wires in safety and maintaining an elec hookup to the Amtrol circ and plumbing. Didn't work on either. Very dissapointing because I thought this was the ticket to zero in on the problem.
Wife and I plan on going to the Gym in the AM for workout and shower. Please keep your thoughts flowing in my direction.
Thanks again,
Mike
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Author:
packy (MA)
is this what you are working with?
[www.taco-hvac.com]
when i refer to T1 and T2 i mean the little screws at the top where the thermostat wires connect to. the small wires coming from the amtrol control i refer as thermostat wires as well. essentially the amtrol control IS a thermostat.
X X on the SR506 goes back to T T on the 8148E
to the best of my knowledge there should not be 24V at any of the relay thermostat screws, the X X screws or the 8148E T T screws. these are just switches. they are not driving any low voltage motor ????
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
The T-stat screws on the SR will have 24v, powered by the relays transformers packy. The x-x is dry contacts.Or am I mis-reading your post?
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
Put a jumper wire from T1 to T1 on the switching relay. That takes the Amtrol controller out of the equation. Does the boiler fire?
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Author:
packy (MA)
thanks for clearing that up. i get confused easily.
i think he said the boiler will fire when any of the heating zones call but not when the indirect (ZONE 6) calls.
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
It's not a Taco SR. I pulled up the instructions, it's zone 1. Maybe a short on the Amtrol t-stat probe?
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Author:
Alwaysfixing (NY)
Yes, the the circa 1998 Erie SR601 Controller (now Honeywell) dedicated "Z1" as the Priority Zone for my external Amtrol Hot Water Maker. It should start my circulator pump, ignite the boiler, open the auto-damper when called to do so when I hear clicking at Z1 relay. When I re-dedicated other zone circulators to do the job, they would not start the system either but did so before I reassigned them. This inaction seems to support the notion that my problem is most likely is the indirect water maker. I'm getting too old for these intense mind games. I would call in a pro but anytime I have done that, only to realize they know less than me. That's after they ring my doorbell for $80 and mark up replacement parts double in price. . .only to replace whole assemblies rather than replacement of bad part.
My system is a bit intimidating just to look at. I'll no doubt have a tough time selling my house to anyone other than a retired submarine captain. In-floor-heating has come a long ways in the past 20-years. No regrets about my conversion back then, especially getting rid of my old forced-air elec. heat pump. We have never been warmer for such a low operation cost.
With the help like you fella's have provided, I will never stop learning. When I was in the "work world phase of my life" I always benefitted new knowledge from my piers. Being retired, I tend to hit brick walls in the absence of that learning environment. Kind of like they say. . .if you want to get better at playing ping-pong, you always have to play with someone better than yourself.
Have a nice weekend,
Mike
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Author:
Alwaysfixing (NY)
Found it!
Thank you Paul. . .I jumped T1 to T1. . .Boiler fired right up and new pump sending hot water to Amtrol Core.
Can't thank you enough.
I'll get right on sourcing a new thermostat control. For the time being, I will manually control H2O with the jumper being present next to my system so's not to create a runaway water temp.
Thanks again. . .I'll let you know the final outcome next week.
Mike
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
At least you can go to the gym because you want to, not because you have to, for the time being. The mechanical control is Amtrol 2704-093
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Author:
Alwaysfixing (NY)
Good morning Paul,
The number stamped/labeled on the Amtrol control is 2704-131 but I will take your number as a source also.
We now have enough hot H2O for a shower at home. Not that we both need the exercise.
By the way, I converted my old heat pump air handler into another hydronic heat zone using a new/old Jeep HD radiator as a heat exchanger to get a faster response during spring and fall heating seasons.
Mike
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
Yeah.........I did try to find out if the # I gave was a replacement, and came across the typical chain of discontinued items. It is probably best to get someone on the phone. The manufacturer, if possible.
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Author:
packy (MA)
all's well that ends well...
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