Sorry for long post, but this is a big problem.

We just had one installed in the basement. A room was built around it, 15" away from concrete wall on one side for pump and plumbing to go.
It has a shower and sink connected to it.

[mobile.zoeller.com]

I have not flushed any solid waste in toilet yet, (#1 only so far!) the guy is coming back to finish some work on the room, but all the plumbing is done.

So here are the main problems:

1) The toilet has about 2 inches of water in it. It has the main bowl, and then what looks like a smaller bowl beneath that.. It looks as if the smaller bowl should at least be filled up, in which case it would have about 5 or 6 inches of water in it which still would be unacceptable, but much better than what we have now.. There is only a couple inches of water in the bottom, and that is my concern.

That is going to be a huge mess, and you'll have to scrub the toilet bowl after every single use- there is a REASON toilets have water in them. It is going to be disgusting just using the toilet every time. My position is that there should be water in the toilet. He looks at me with a straight face and shrugs and says, "that's the way it is", and then he said there is no adjustment. I do not think that is right. And when I look on-line it clearly shows adjustments to the floats inside the pump.

pic-



I looked for causes and found the large pipe coming from behind the toilet out through the wall, and into pump is not quite level. Maybe that is another reason the toilet has no water in it?

pic-


So maybe there is some other adjustment to get more water in the toilet? I sure hope so.


2) Another huge problem- Water pools up in shower. I took one shower down there so far. Not a pleasant experience. Water instantly pooled up and suds and everything made it very slippery. 10 minutes in and water was over my toes, and suds up to my ankles.. There's no "peeing down the drain" in this shower! (I don't do that anyways, but I have heard most people do). That would be impossible in this shower as you are standing in 2 inches of your own dirty shower water.

I think that is wrong, and it should work like any other shower.. He says again.. "that's working correctly".. Huh?

Even when the pump turn on, it only gets the water level back down to the drain level at best, but most of the time the drain is completely full of water. So when the pump turns on, (it only ever stays on for 1 second, and then won't come on again for another 5 or 6 seconds at the soonest), it just isn't enough to keep the drain empty and allow water and suds to flow. It is a cycle, pump turns on and water goes down a little, then 5 or 6 seconds of shower floor filling up, then pump turn on for 1 second, and pulls some water down, but there is still an inch of water in the shower.

I looked online and it said it can handle something like 40 gal/min.
[fdn.qleapahead.com]

I realize that is "max" rate, and that other variables effect that rate, but it should be enough to keep the shower from filling up. I think it is an installation problem.

I think maybe the shower is not level (tiling away from drain hole compounding the issue), and maybe the drain pipe is level, not angled down, so it just fills up and doesn't drain "down" to the pump.

I saw this:

pic-


pic from here-
[fdn.qleapahead.com]

That clearly shows the shower drain elevated with a drain pipe angled down to the pump. The shower is only slightly elevated in my installation, and I think the pipes are level. They have check valves, but it is still not working right. I am 5' 8-1/2'' and only have a few inches over my head till I hit ceiling already. So shower can't really go much higher anyways. Maybe the Toilet and pump should be lower though?

I know for a fact it is ventilated properly. I can see the the vent pipe and where it goes.

I fear this is going to be a huge problem to fix, and another better plumber will be needed to fix it, and they might have to re-do everything. I sure hope not.

I can't believe that "it's just the way they are supposed to be" either.

The water that stays in the bowl is by design of the toilet and the refilling from the toilet tank. New toilets retain a lot less water in the bowl after a flush, in order to conserve water. The pipe between the toilet and pump should pitch down towards the pump. Water seeks it's own level, so the shower pan should be installed at an elevation higher than the high water level in the pump basin. The instructions show 8" minimum shower pan height above floor. What's the ceiling height measurement from the floor?

Thanks for the reply.

I just got off the phone with Zoeller. I measured everything and described the installation. I will try to upload some pics of the installation.

The ceiling is 7' (the rafters outside the bathroom), but there is a Sheetrock ceiling in bathroom which is a little lower, and concrete floor is not level, in fact it goes down hill from pump to where the drain is. It also goes downhill from west to east (drain hole is on east side of shower) I think he shimmed it up, but may have over compensated in one plane, so now drain is on high side on shower floor.

The pump is sitting 3" above the concrete floor on two 2"x 4" boards (1 1/2" each), and the floor of the bathroom is elevated to what looks like about 2".

I got my head down there and looked closely, and the pipe coming from the shower drain is just about level level, they come out on the same side that the pump is on, and then there is a catch that goes down to floor level, then it goes back up to 5" (center of pipe), and turns 45 degrees, and goes over to the pump.

From shower drain to ceiling is about 6'3", but that means little since the floor is not perfectly level, and neither is the ceiling I would bet.

There is also a drain pipe from overflow in the shower, that is the pipe on top, and that looks like it does have a nice angle on it, as it is several inches higher than bottom drain hole.


I am thinking one solution would be to only have the sink and toilet use the existing pump, and then get another pump, and jackhammer the floor out about 6 or 8 inches, and put the pump down into that recess, and then angle the shower drain pipe down into that pump, so that it is at least 8" below the drain. Or maybe just put new pump directly on the floor even, and re-install pipes so that they angle down?

Other than that, the tub floor has to come up at least 4 inches or so to make it 8" above the pump, but then you run out of head room. Also each pump would get used less, and maybe then they would each last longer? It seems kind of like a radical solution, but hey, if it works, it works.

Another solution would be to have the existing pump lower, even down to the floor level, but then it looks like the toilet would have to be lower too (or is that not the case?), the guy at Zoeller seems to think so. The toilet cannot go lower without cutting out the floor, and even then it would only be a couple inches lower, but then it would sit too low compared to surrounding floor.

It would be hard to get the existing pump below concrete floor level where it is because the wall is right there. We could jackhammer out a hole for the new shower pump outside of the space behind the wall.

The guy at Zoeller also confirmed that there is an adjustment to the foat levels in the pump control, and that maybe that would help too. The pump only ever comes on for 1 second at the most, and shuts right off, and then will not come on again for 5 or 6 seconds, which does not allow shower drain to flow continuously. (it backs up and gets level with shower floor when pump is not running)..


I'll get some pics uploaded.

I managed to get some pics from under the shower tub..
I cannot even get my head down there.. interesting.
It is raised up, but doesn't look like enough, and drain pipe is level.




























Edited 2 times.

I ask this not having worked on a Qwik Jon before, can the pump basin be lowered to the concrete and the pipe between the toilet and basin offset to meet the new inlet elevation? This would give an extra 3" of fall for the tub/shower and help keep your toes out of the standing water.

The overflow should connect to the tub side of the trap and there should be a vent pipe between the trap and basin. The sink drain should also be vented if it isn't already. The check valve between the trap and basin will be rendered useless shortly by trapping gunk and not sealing.

One of your pictures shows the backside of the tub spout. Is the drop ear 90* attached to the stud? Is that ½"Pex feeding the spout? Any problems with water coming out of shower when running water through the tub spout?

good job steve.. all very good, valid points which must be addressed..

Thanks again for replies.

Well, unfortunately we I have to keep that big pipe from toilet to pump level, that is what they said at Zoeller- so that really makes things more difficult.
I definitely asked about that, because I was thinking the same thing. Dropping it down to concrete level would be a somewhat "easy" solution, but nope the pump cannot be just lowered down without taking the toilet with it. If he could drop down pump, I think that would make drain about 6 or 7 inches above bottom of pump.
Maybe I should call Zoeller back and make absolutely sure though, because if that would work, it would save a lot of frustration and time.

About the vents. He only has one vent, and it is the vent shown in the pics from pump/tank to outside as far as I can see.
I will ask him about that though. In the diagram it doesn't show that they are needed though. I wonder why?



direct link to pic- [lh3.googleusercontent.com]
(I am showing this pic to installer when he comes back)

I wish I could see a "side view" of above diagram to see what they are doing with shower drain. It looks like it is coming straight down 8" first, then a trap, then it comes back up about 4 or 5 inches, then turns 90 degrees, then angles back down to the pump. I just wonder if that gradual angle matter at all.. No such angle in our setup. Just level pipe. I noticed there is a big space underneath the shower drain pipe right where it is attached to drain. It seems like he could go straight down a couple inched and then use a 90 degree elbow, so that entire pipe is at a lower level, or else leave it like it is near drain, but have a gradual decline on the drain pipe. Or maybe all that makes no difference and all that matters is where it all ends up (which is still not far enough down)

The sink drainage seems to work fine, but there isn't much water coming out of that faucet though, it is good enough, but not a lot of volume there..

Are those extra drain vents you're talking about just basic "plumbing 101" stuff, and should be done no matter what the diagram says?

That 90 degree is not attached to the stud. It is 1/2 PEX, he did use 1/4" PEX before and then made all the 90 degree turns with really tiny 90 degree angle black plastic fittings that went INSIDE the 1/4" pipe. Either that or it is 3/4" now and it was 1/2" before, I can't remember. I'll have to go measure. It is bigger now than it was originally. Is that inside diameter measurement on those PEX lines or OD?

The water pressure was terrible originally. Way worse than it was in the upstairs shower being fed by the same pump/ pressure tank/ water heater system. My uncle (not a plumber, but more experienced with this kind of stuff) looked at it and was saying those plastic elbows he was using before were about the size of a pencil or cigarette inside. So I asked him to use bigger piping and elbows for the shower at least, so he did that and now the pressure is better in the shower.

Also no problem with water coming out of shower head when it is coming out of faucet below. It seems to work fine.. When I pull the "switch"/plunger on the spout, water comes out of shower head as it is supposed to. I will get some better pics of that setup behind shower, maybe someone will spot something else wrong..


When you say: "check valve between the trap and basin will be rendered useless shortly by trapping gunk and not sealing."
Is that because the pipe is not at an angle as it is supposed to be as in diagram above? Or will it still collect gunk if installed in a different spot on the drain like you said, or will it get clogged up with gunk basically no matter what you do? It looks like you are saying there should only be one check valve in the shower drain pipes, if overflow is connected like you say it should be. Could that also help drainage if done correctly? I guess what I am asking is, the way it is now with 2 check valves and where they are installed, is that hurting shower drainage? Could that be a problem?
I'm also wondering if the fact that those shower drain pipes are level, and not gradually angled down will affect how the check valves work, or if that doesn't matter?

I'm also wondering if there are any other toilets that will work with this pump? I am looking for one that is NOT a "water saver" toilet, that actually has water in the bowl, you know, like hman being use.

I'm about ready to scrap the whole thing just because of that problem actually. Maybe a different brand makes a similar system, but has actual water in the toilet bowl.

The "no water in toilet bowl" is huge problem.

Well he is coming back today again. I have no idea how he is ever going to fix this.

I think I would have just broken the concrete and installed a pit and sewage ejector pit and put all the lines in the concrete, but it is too late for that. I mean this in the kindest way, but I would never buy this house if you put it on the market.