Interested in the thoughts regarding 2 different pex systems for attaching fittings

The Upnor plastic collars that you expand and the memory "returns" to make a water tight fitting

And the Zurn ratcheting Quick clamp system using the metal rings that will crimp the ring until a light on the rachet tool indicates that the ring has been clamped.

I see a lot of the Upnor being used but very little of the Zurn in my area of CA

Thoughts are appreciated as I use the Zurn but is this system "second best " ?

i see leaks on the uponor expansion system. especially on systems done in the cold new england winters.
i use the viega press sleeves and have never (i repeat) never had a leak.

also, a couple of years ago i got a call to a flooded basement. one of the side crimp clamps had split and caused quite a bit of damage. i will not use those type clamps.




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Packy are you referring to installs done in the cold, or existing installations that leak when it gets cold? Uphonor takes heat to soften the pipe to allow it to shrink back down around the fittings. I would have to look it up, but I think that any install under 50 degrees or so need heat applied to the area to seal properly

I eihter use the system with rings that get crimped to the tubing, or the "cinch" rings that use an Oetiker tool to close them.

So thoughts are all over the place
What I have heard true or not that when using the Upnor system pressurize the water lines to 125 then release the air to 100 ??

I don't understand the last post? How can you pressurize a fitting that has not been sealed? I prefer the Uponor system as it is always trying to get back to its extruded state. I.E. it is trying to contract around the fitting where as crimp fitting is trying to expand and loosen.

First you close off the piping system and then you pressurize it. We plumbers do it all of the time to test stuff. It's too time consuming to test each fitting, then installing them with piping and testing the system again as a whole.

But ravi , that only applies to grade a pex , because its the only pex that has memory. Grade b pex doesnt have memory , therefor if crimped , it doesnt expand back to original size. Uponor will. So its safe to crimp grade be pex. I wouldnt crimp grade a. Even though i see lots of plumbers do it here. Someone correct me if im wrong

The type A pex is softer, but shouldn't be crimped simply based on manufacturer's design for the connection (proprietary reasons, of course) and would void any warranties if installed differently, but I can see where some guys would want to crimp it. Type B doesn't have the softness and shouldn't be expanded because it won't go back to it's original shape as well as type A. It will try, like in the event of expanding from freezing, but it's still a bit more stiff. I'm not partial to any particular type and most breaks or separations I've found are due to improper installation, like that split ring in the photo.

my post stated that after the Upnor has sealed Done you should over pressurize to like 125 then release to 100 for testing

Why would one think that the slpit ring in the photo is a incorrect install rather than a material defect?

Type A pex has a slightly larger inside diameter as well, so crimping with a different manufacturer's fittings isn't ideal.

Almost every installer I've ever met over the years has never heard of this, so I'll explain. Just as you cut copper tubing to meet in the hub of a fitting the same should be done for pex. Most installers of pex will cut a little long or a little short and "influence" the pipe to meet the fitting and crimp it. If you had two lengths of copper meeting perpendicularly at a 90 and one was 1/4" short, some guys would push one pipe or the other to meet completely in the hub...maybe wedge a screwdriver or hammer to hold it in place...then solder it. After it cools a little, remove the wedge and the pipe stays in the hub. Now that fitting is under stress as the copper is in a state of wanting to go back to its natural position, but the solder holds it in place. If you cut the pipe a few inches down from the fitting, it would spring back to where it was originally instead of staying in place like an uninstalled piece of stock copper tubing.
The same practice applies to pex. What make most plumbers brag about how "fast and easy" pex is to install is that they don't use the precision measurements like you would on a copper job. A little short, a little long, a curve around a stud or joist or leaving the curve/bend on the end of the pex pipe. Even on stick lengths of pex (not rolls) not having the end meet naturally as they lay and pushing/bending the pipe to make the connection meet will put stress on the fitting and the connecting ring. The split ring shown in the photo has all of the characteristics of a classic stress break. I've seen it dozens of times on service and new installations. a company I worked for was famous for them, but they were more worried about quantity over quality. In one instance I warned them of stressed connections on a specific job, but the boss ignored my warnings. A few weeks after the owners moved in the house flooded. The rings split and the boss told the homeowner that it was Zurn's crimp rings that failed. The rather wealthy homeowner called his attorney friend who contacted Zurn, who sent out an engineer. The engineer immediately pointed out all of the stressed points of connection and left the documentation showing that my boss was responsible for improper installation. No lesson was learned because he was too stubborn and said that Zurn is just a big company blaming the little guy to avoid lawsuits. They are still making the same mistakes today and still popping connections.
So, I'm sure somebody will come out and say "I've been doing this for 20 years and never had a problem." and that will just be another person who is unaware of their own failures.
Hope this info is useful to somebody.



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Be that as it may, it doesn't alter the fact that the bands have more failures, irrespective of the reason why. Consumers are expecting a paid installation to be correct and not fail; it doesn't matter if the bands are bad or they are installed incorrectly -failed connections are failed connections.

Great dissertation, but highly suspect factually. Any "stress" will be on the fitting, NOT the crimp ring. You can pull a crimp ring as much as you want and it will NOT CRACK/split, unless there is some expansion pressure applied to it. And, "cutting PEX a little long, OR short" creates absolutely NO stress on it unless there is a BIG gap to compensate for and it is extemely stretched, and even then I doubt that the fitting would fail before the tubing.

Interesting, because ALL the charts I have seen show that 1/2" PEX, for example, has an .825 o.d. and a 0.07 wall thickness regardless of its grade.

Actually KC, you are wrong. The products are good in my example and the installation is bad. That was made clear. And hj, I feel you are being contrary just for the sake of being contrary.
I cited one personal experience with Zurn cinch rings. The stress from the pipe on the fitting effects the all aspects of the connection and this is not only for cinch rings or compression rings. This applies to all types of connections and piping. Stressing of pipe connections is usually covered in most code books and manufacturer installation manuals for all materials, not just pex, for the same reasons. Copper, Steel, HDPE, PVC/ABS. Seriously, is this something new that accountability for providing good craftsmanship sounds so foreign? Go ahead and dismiss it, it's good information and you can be another helpless plumber blaming his tools and the materials, powerless to give the customers what they pay because of your ego.

@ Author: Caduceus (PA),

your audience consists of both 'the choir' and the obstinate



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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

to the guy that said grade A pex has a larger i.d. , ive never seen data that can correlate that. grade a , b and c are s.d.r.9 , (standard dimention ratio 9) , so they are all the same exact i.d. and o.d. . heck , even ranch piping , the original black p.e. that first hit in the 70's is sdr9

Maybe KCRoto was referring to the o.d. of the uponor fittings and misjudged the application. Is anybody willing to look up the specs to compare fitting o.d. for type a and b to compare?

I was referring to the inside diameter. If you take a zurn fitting and a piece of both zurn pex and uphonor, the uphonor slides on, and the fitting will spin around easily, the zurn is much more snug. It is possible that the translucent color of the uphonor makes it look thinner, and the zurn may not be perfectly round to account for the differences. Maybe it is a quality control issue, and maybe it is all in my head, but the Uphonor looks and feels more loose on the fittings. I had to make repairs on a system and ended up using a shark bite to transition the two just to cover my own ass; I won't risk the liability of using uphonor with crimped attachments.. everyone else can do what they like.

Absolutely not. WE install Uponor and propex fittings everyday of the year in Canada. The secret is to use the fewest number of expansions possible. Less is more when using the tool. Extra expansions will slow it down, but know that when they say heat it up, they're talking about room temperature only. no fire