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Author:
Rigel (MA)
Hi, all. New user, and first time poster, here. Thanks in advance for any help!
This past fall (~8 months ago), we moved into a duplex. We -- the other adult and I -- have noticed that we can't take warm showers longer than 10-15 minutes. Even when the hot water hasn't been used for several hours, the shower becomes noticeably cooler by 10 minutes in, and by 15 minutes, is cool enough that it starts to become uncomfortable.
Some things to note about the situation here:
- The property was built in 1925, and and the last /listed/ renovation was 1959. (Certain kinds of renovations might not be clear from public record.)
- The hot water heater runs on natural gas, and claims to have a first hour rating of 68 gallons. More information is available about the heater on request; I'm not entirely sure what details are most helpful. (The side of the temperature dial lists the name White Rodgers and AP1427-0H-1 multiple times, but that could just refer to a control dial in this family -- [www.emersonclimate.com] )
- I /assume/ that the heater does not heat the water for both units in the duplex, but I do not know that for sure. (When I've asked the landlord if that heater heats all the hot water in the house, his answer has been . . . vague.)
- The last time I checked, the temperature dial was set at 'A' from A-C, where C is 'Very Hot', above all the 'Low' settings. I would consider dialing it up to 'B' and seeing if that helps, but again, I wouldn't want to adjust the hot water the landlord uses in the upstairs unit without asking /if/ they share the heater.
- The shower does not have a thermostatic mixing valve. It has a hot water knob, a cold water knob, and a knob between them to switch between the bath and the shower. And the faucet below and shower head far above, of course.
- When the shower runs, about 1/4th (at a guess) of the water flow still runs from the faucet.
At the moment, our best technique for getting as warm a shower as possible is to try not to take a shower within 1.5-2 hours of any major water use, to turn on /only/ the hot water (and then, only a third to half of the way up) and add a tiny bit of cool water for the first 10 minutes, and hope. But there has to be a better solution than this.
Thoughts?
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Author:
packy (MA)
you did not tell us the size of the tank??
also need to know if the heater is shared with other people.
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
It sounds like the landlord is responsible for the heater, so getting authorization in writing to hire a plumber would be prudent if you landlord doesn't want to call one himself(or herself). That being said, gas hot water heaters have a quick recovery time, and it sounds like yours isn't acting like it should. I am guessing that the heater hasn't had the sediment flushed out of it, and the heat can't reach the water because the sediment in the tank is acting as an insulator. Get the tank flushed, and I would turn the temperature up to B at a minimum unless you have small children/disabled/elderly. Lower water temperatures save energy, but a tank is supposed to be set at 140 degrees to kill bacteria. So it really depends on who you want to listen to. (EPA or OSHA?) If you need to see if your tank is being shared, shut off the cold water at the valve coming into the tank and see how long it takes for someone to come looking at why they don't have hot water.
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Author:
Rigel (MA)
Thanks for the responses so far, all!
packy: Most of the information I have about the tank and how many people use it was provided above, I'm afraid. The other adult who lives in my unit is the only other person I /know for sure/ uses the tank; if the landlord and his wife use it also (and I'm not sure how to confirm that based on his reply above), it would be four people. So, 2-4 adults. I'm enough of a novice that what I listed -- a hot water tank with a first hour rating of 68 gallons, fed by natural gas, with White Rodgers and AP1427-0H-1 on the control dial -- is all the information I have about the hot water tank. Is there somewhere on the Energy Guide I could find the tank size?
KCRoto: This is really interesting, thanks! For my own reference, what temperature can I roughly expect 'A' to be? And could this be due to a lack of insulation on the pipes running up into the house? In terms of turning the tank up, having it checked and/or flushed, shutting off the cold water at the valve coming into the tank to test who uses it, etc., these all sound like excellent ideas . . . but I think I'll wait for the landlord and us to sort out a signed lease for the new year before doing so. He seems to respond to nearly anything that isn't, "Things are perfect, thanks!" as a criticism, and gets touchy about us doing anything ourselves beyond hanging pictures. I'd hate to set him off and have to move twice in two years.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
[www.emersonclimate.com]
A should be 130 degrees F
B should be 140 degrees F
C should be 150 degrees F
Very Hot is 160 degrees F if you have the controller shown in the above link, page 4
[www.mass.gov]
Water: If the landlord meets certain legal requirements then they may charge a new tenant for water consumption by installing a water meter for the unit. Landlords should be reminded that they are still responsible for payment of the water and sewer bills and must bill their tenants separately. Before installing separate water meters, landlords must contact the Massachusetts Department of Public Health for required forms. Landlords must still provide the facilities for heating water to a temperature between 110?F and 130?F and must pay for this fuel unless the written tenancy agreement states that the tenant must pay for it.
Depending on the temperature of the shower, he may or may not be obligated to fix the problem irrespective of his feelings. In addition, in the state of Massachusetts, he has to hire a plumber to do the work and can't perform it himself.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
Rocket Gal (Non-US)
Thanks, I didn't know until now what temperatures were represented by the A, B, and the C on the dial.
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
Do you pay a gas bill, or is it included in the rent?
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Author:
Rigel (MA)
Hi, all! Thanks again for being so helpful, everyone.
I have new information! Hopefully this will shed some light on what's going on.
Now that I've had some time to look around the basement without concern, there /appear/ to be two hot water heaters in the basement, one older than the other. I've been talking mostly about the newer, so I'll continue talking about that one.
--NEWER HEATER--
I believe this is our hot water heater, but mostly because it's in the section of the basement we're allowed to use as storage. (Also because the /other/ heater seems to have pipes that mostly go straight up, and the upstairs unit -- we live downstairs -- seems to have main water pipes that go up through a broom-closet-sized area just above there; the older heater looks like they have their pipe lines there.) The brand is GE, Model # SG40T12AVG00 and was manufactured on March 28 2013, so it's pretty new. (This lines up with me asking if the landlord has ever had 'temperature problems' with the water in our unit and he said something like, "No . . . well, not since we replaced it." I don't know if this answers packy's question, but the label lists 'Cap. U.S. Gals. 40', which I assume to be a capacity of 40 gallons?
The heater has the date 3/14/14 scratched onto the side; my guess is that this is when it was most recently checked.
--OLDER HEATER--
The older heater is listed as a GE Profile Performance SmartWater Heater, and lists itself as self-cleaning. The model is SG4OT12A, and also lists 'Cap. U.S. Gals. 40'. The control dial is older on this unit, but also seems to be set at the lowest 'hot' setting, which I assume to be A.
Paul48: We /do/ pay a gas bill, but our unit is also heated through hot water baseboard that is (as far as I know) gas-fueled. (The landlord mentioned we 'would be charged for water', but what I think he meant was the gas bill heating the hot water baseboards; we have no 'water bill'.)
KCRoto: Thanks for all the information and the links. I may wait until we have a signed lease for the next year before doing anything other than possibly moving the heat up to 'B', and even that I'd only do if I was sure which heater is ours.
Edited 2 times.
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Author:
ravi102769 (VA)
One other thing that it could be is a broken or missing dip tube. The dip tube is on the cold inlet and runs from the top of the cold inlet to the bottom of the tank. When hot water is used cold water comes into the tank at the bottom (by the thermostat) causing the tank to fire. A simple test is to turn on the hot water and see how long it takes for the tank to fire. It should not take long.
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