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Author:
buildit (WA)
I have an issue that I am not sure how to fix. Thanks in advance for any help I get.
My home is about two years old and has a 1" Pex type supply line form the meter, it runs about 150 ft to the house and has about a 10' rise from the meter. I have always wondered why my outside hose bibs do not seem to put much water out and I have a noticable pressure drop in the shower if the sprinklers come on.
This low pressure issue really became a problem when I fired up my sprnkler system for the first time. My spnikler system is connected directly to the house supply line before it enters the house. All of the zones were designed to be used with a 50psi system, which is what I have, they are all actually under the maximum gallon per minute. I had the people that designed the system come out and they said it looked like a pressure issue but were confused when they checked the incoming pressure again, still at 50psi.
They left the pressure gauge on the system and when we started a zone the pressure dropped to almost 10psi. Once the sprinkler line filled with water the pressure only came up to around 24psi, way below the recomendation of the sprinkler head manufacturer. With this problem the spnklers are not covering good and I have dry spots everywhere.
I told the guys it was alomost like the supply line to the house had a kink or crushed spot in it and they agreed. They were scrathing their heads because they were worried about having to fix this huge issue so they offered up some help to test the line.
We disconnected the house supply line at the meter and conneted a piece of 1" rolled plastic pipe and ran it along the ground to the sprinkler system manifold. Once we connected this up we turned on one of the sprinkler zones and it was a whole new system. The sprinklers popped up out of the ground, they were shooting their appropriate distances and you could see they were turning faster. It was night and day.
So now the question is what next? The house is past its 1 year warranty and there is landscaping, fresh top soil and an asphalt driveway beween the meter and the house. We were just getting ready to seed and this all came up.
Can a test be done to prove this is a problem? I need to have some credible evidence before I approach someone.
Can a plumber come out and check this out and give me a definitive answer, moving forward with repair or replacemnet is a huge expense to bite off on going on a hunch.
It seems like one of those problems that starts the finger pointing game, I am not sure what my next move is.
If you are still reading thanks for looking at this and I look forward to hearing what your thoughts are.
Lynn
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
My initial thought is that you have a pressure reducing valve inside the pit with the meter. I have seen a lot of new homes install it there (and in my opinion it is about the dumbest place to install a prv). Check to see if you have a Prv installed in the pit, and look at the tubing that they used to connect them(if it is there)
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Author:
packy (MA)
you did not tell us what the pressure readings were with the new temporary water line.
it does sound to me like 1 inch pex running 150 + feet is not big enough.
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Author:
Wheelchair (IL)
Is your PEX 1 inch OD (3/4 inch ID) or 1 inch ID ? That could make a difference with house waters and irrigation.
Best Wishes
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Author:
Paul48 (CT)
Your test proved it is the supply line to the house. You bypassed it and the problem went away. If the home is out of warranty, there's no one to point a finger at. The are processes that allow for a new main to be put in without trenching. They would have to dig, maybe 3 holes. Then they use a thing that looks like a large bullet on the end of a compressor hose. It hammers its way through the soil, from hole to hole. They then slide the new tubing in.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
If it is closed off that severely, you might be able to push an electrician's fish tape down the line until it reaches the defect. Then measure that far and dig down.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
GREAT IDEA
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
buildit (WA)
Thanks for all of the thoughts.
There is no pressure device in the meter box.
The pressure after we ran the bypass line was around 40 psi when the sprinklers were on, quite an improvement in there performance.
I have heard about the directional boring, it is around $20.00 a foot here.
I like the idea about the fish tape. I was thinking last night that I would disconnect each end and try and vacuum in a pull tape with footage markers. I figured if it is kinked bad enough to slow the water down then it should stop a conduit pig.
I had a rented skid steer here this weekend so I did not get a chance to work on it. I will dig up both ends tomorrow night and try either the fish tape or a vacuum. I am keeping my hopes up that it is not under the driveway.
Thanks again for your input, I will post the results.
Lynn
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Author:
buildit (WA)
The Pex is 1" ID, I thought I saw somewhere that 1" could be run longer than that. I do not remember the figures but that was one of the things I looked up first. I want to say 300', which seams too long.
I would think that 1" is not big enough either to run 150', I would have run bigger to be sure, but I am no expert.
Lynn
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Well, if they did NOT "snake" the tubing under the driveway, you could probably attach the new line to it and pull it under the concrete with your skid steer.
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Author:
hi (TX)
sometimes pipe can be pulled by backhoe by attaching a new pipe to a cable or wire or even the old pipe to be replaced and pulling this with the backhoe or tractor. replaces a lot of digging if it works
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Author:
buildit (WA)
Well I said I would post my results so after an exhausting weekend of hand digging up both ends of my 1" Pex supply line and one spot in the middle I found out a few things.
No kinks or blockages, I fished every inch and even pulled a nylon plug through the sections I could not see to make sure there was not a restriction. I did find a T where I did not know there was one. I also found that my sprinkler guy put in another T to feed the sprinklers system and got two of the three tube inserts sideways. It was on the in feed side and the side going out to the sprinkler system.
I thought I had found my problem, but after putting it all back together it was not the needed change I was hoping for. It still did not perform like the 1" drip line I bypassed the current supply line with. There was a slight increase in performance but still not as good as the temporary drip pipe bypass.
I measured the inside of the 1" PEX and it only measures 7/8", and next to a piece of 1" sch40 PVC and the 1" drip line it looks very small. The PEX measured very close to .875" (7/8" and both of the other read almost the same at 1.050", that is a big difference as far as I am concerned.
I think my supply line is under sized, even if it was running just the sprinkler system. The people that put in my sprinkler system used 1" PVC for the entire thing, it seems silly to supply that system with a pipe that only has a 7/8" ID. Not to mention it is actually 170' of pipe from my meter to my sprinkler shut off valve and has at least a 10' rise, and it has to go through two Ts, three 90s, a shut off valve and a back flow assembly.
I wish I could easily read the pressure at the meter, static and the house is 50 psi. My neighbor across the street, who is slightly down hill has 60 psi, my neighbor adjacent to me has the same 50 psi that I have.
I have tried to look up the recommended information on house supply lines but it is far from black and white. It seems that it should be to a point, meaning isn't there a starting point for pipe size and then you would generally upsize from there based on length and rise? I get that there is a need for the calculations required based on how many fixtures, but some standard answers should exist.
A small house, with an average run of 50 feet would typically have the same trade size of pipe across the country, I would guess. If it is a medium sized house with a 170' run up 10' to the house I would bet an experienced plumber would not have to do any calculations, he would know how far to upsize.
Anyone have any of theses numbers? I know I am over simplifying this but it is going to be one of only a few answers, 3/4", 1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2" ID pipe.
I do not think my 7/8" ID pipe is big enough.
I am going to guess that I need a minimum of 1-1/4" ID pipe, a true 1-1/4" ID. The 1" ID pipe I used as a bypass worked great, but it was a straight shot right to the sprinkler manifold.
If you are still reading and want to know, my house has;
2-1/2 baths, two kitchen sinks, typical laundry with a sink, a fridge that has water in the door and a sprinkler system.
Thanks very much for any input,
Lynn
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
If you plan on running the sprinklers, you should increase the size of your water line and probably get a bigger water meter installed. Alternatively, you could just run a second line to your sprinkler system and put it on a separate meter.
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Author:
ravi102769 (VA)
I have no idea how old this post is, but the easiest solution would be a water pressure booster pump. It will pump the water from the city increasing your pressure. [us.grundfos.com]
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