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Author:
sum (FL)
This property I bought six months ago has a laundry "room" that is a lean-to.
Tenants never complained but while I was having electrical work done I noticed the area outside of the lean-to being wet and its not from the rain or someone using a garden hose.
Hmmm....so I started a load of laundry with nothing, just cold water, set to small load, and sure even with no detergent as soon as the washing machine starts the discharge 4 seconds in the stand pipe overflows. The stand pipe and trap are 2" PVC, but building is 1950s so I think the original lines are cast iron.
Did some research and permit search did not see any laundry lean-to general, plumbing, electrical permits on record, and so most likely it was unpermitted. I then looked up the outside wall there is no vent protruding from the roof, and no kitchen or bathroom within 15' on the inside it could have tied into.
I then disconnected the washer and pushed the supply hose into the stand pipe, turned water on full and it drained without overflowing for 5 minutes. I know the washing machine empties with a pump and at a higher volume.
Based on what I know so far any idea what I should try next?
Is it likely the pipe is clogged down below if its overflowing so quickly? Everything else drains fine in all three units, no back up.
Is it perhaps they tied a 2" PVC into an old 1.5" CI that can't handle the volume? I had set to a small load, no detergent, no sud, and it overflowed.
Is it possible the lack of a vent caused it to overflow due to inescapable positive pressure?
Or partial clog elsewhere? Lint & hair buildup?
Oh there is no clean out on the exterior concrete block wall where the stand pipe connection comes out, so no easy way to look down that pipe or auger it.
Scratching my head.
Edited 3 times.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Everything you asked IS POSSIBLE, but there is no way we can tell if any of them are the actual problem or not.
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Author:
packy (MA)
they tied a 2" PVC into an old 1.5" CI ...
it is possible but i don't know where they would have gotten 1 1/2 inch cast iron as it is extremely rare.
it could however be galvanized pipe under the ground.
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Author:
Wheelchair (IL)
Sum, I thought you once mentioned that you had a Drain Camera. Now is a great time to put it to use. Can you install a utility sink next to the washer to hold the discharged waters as it enters the smaller drain?
Best Wishes
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
The most likely scenario is that the pipe is restricted just past the trap of the standpipe. Corrosion and a buildup of strings, lint, etc. would be my guess. Even if there is a vent issue, the drain probably needs cleaned anyhow.
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Author:
sum (FL)
I disconnected the discharge hose again, put a washing machine hose into the stand pipe, which measures 16" from the top of the trap connection. I turned it on and looked down with a flash light. Water is draining, once or twice it came up to within 6" of the top if the stand pipe then it goes down again.
But with the pump in the washing machine discharging at higher volume and pressure, it overflowed.
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Author:
sum (FL)
I don't know if its tied to 1.5" CI or 2" CI I was only guessing. It used to be septic and converted to city sewer in 2008.
I wish the original owner, who is a licensed contractor, would return my call with some history and details.
He stopped talking to me after I found out he concealed a plumbing leak that caused serious subterranean termite damages, and I also questioned his integrity when I foynd out the triplex has three water heaters and there is none in the laundry room, and I found our one of the tenants has been paying for the electric to heat the water used by everyone for the washing machine, and the tenant didn't know about it.
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Author:
sum (FL)
Wheelchair I never bought that camera.
If the issue is caused by the capacity of the pipe to handle the discharge may be I need to put in a laundry tub.
If it is a clog or vent issue then I need to solve that...
I can't tell the difference.
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Author:
sum (FL)
Unfortunately the stubout was glued to an elbow that I believe is a LA pattern trap, so the only access I have is a down facing elbow unless I cut the stubout but there is only like an inch between the wall and the hub of that elbow. I will post some pics later.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
Laundry tray.
Just tie it into the standpipe w/o a trap on the sink (cap the top of the standpipe).
After you are satisfied you can then 'dress the job up'.
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
sum (FL)
Here are some pictures but not sure it would help much.
Here is the 2" trap and stand pipe. As stated previously the stand pipe is about 16" above the top of the trap connection. It is also evident the concrete wall was opened up to make the connection previously.
If I cut the elbow off I will be left with about barely an inch of pipe. But that would allow me to look into that pipe to see where it's going and perhaps have it snaked - if it's indeed caused by some partial clog...
So I guess two questions.
(1) If I cut off the elbow, is the left over pipe of 1" enough to make a new connection?
(2) How do I tell the difference between a clogged line and only draining partially versus a line that is not sized to carry the discharge capacity? Here is a picture of the washing machine hose draining and that didn't overflow after running for 5 minutes.
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
I have seen 1.5" drains carry washing machine water without a problem, especially if they are plastic. Since you can run the supply line in and it doesn't back up, you know that the flow is decent, but not sufficient. If the drain is reduced down, you may not be able to do anything at all to fix the problem; if it just needs rodded out, the solution is to have the drain cleaned. By getting the drain cleaned, you can definitely fix a partially clogged drain, and if it is undersized, removing buildup from the sides of the pipe might take care of the symptom regardless. Have someone competent clean the drain, and have the cold water supply running full blast down the standpipe while they do it. I usually used a garden hose and not a supply line for increased water flow myself, but either way will work.
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Author:
sum (FL)
after looking at this whole thing a bit more, I think I need to further investigate.
I noticed the top of the stand pipe has duct tape. Someone put it there, presumably to stop the overflow...so this has been happening for some time, but ignored since it's outdoors and it most likely gone unnoticed because they start a wash load and walk away and come back after an hour. The machines are sitting on paver bricks, the water overflows and seeps into the ground.
The washing machine hose on full does not back up, but it's marginal because I saw the water level coming up going down...so may be a garden hose will cause it to back up. That would be my next step to try.
I would have to hire a drain cleaning service, but the problem is where to clean the drain. Should I cut that pipe at the elbow coming out the wall to do the augering, or should I go to a closeby vent on the roof and run the risk of cleaning a section downstream of the issue?
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
Auger directly through the top of the standpipe, with the water running. Don't over think this.
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Author:
sum (FL)
KCRoto I thought it's impossible to auger a line through a trap I remember hiring someone to do it once and he said he could only do so by using an undersized cutting head. Is that the case?
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
You can auger through most cast iron traps, and schedule 40 traps. Chrome plated brass or poly traps aren't strong enough. Almost all tub, shower, mop sink, and floor drain are augured through the trap, unless they have a cleanout specifically designed for that purpose. I seldom used blades on my small small machine, and always on the big machine. On average, I cleaned about 4-5 drains per day and only had one callback every 6-8 weeks. Cleaning drains is up to the ability of the person running the auger. A talented person can do the work faster and more effectively than the average handyman, and can usually get the drain cleaner. We guaranteed our work for 6 months on main lines, and 90 days for everything else unless there was obvious damage or abuse.
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Author:
sum (FL)
KCRoto,
I think this 2" SCH40 PVC is newer, but eventually it will meet 2" cast iron pipe. If I hire someone to auger it, do you have a few questions I can use to decide who to hire? I have had bad experiences with drain "roto" companies.
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Author:
sum (FL)
well here are the results.
Put a washing machine hose into the stand pipe, turn cold water valve on to FULL. No overflow.
Put a garden hose into the stand pipe, turn cold water valve on FULL, still no overflow.
Put the washing machine discharge tube into the stand pipe, start a SMALL, NORMAL load with no detergent, and when it discharges it overflows in 3-4 seconds.
That makes no sense. That doesn't seem like a clog...or is it?
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
The pipe is probably restricted to about an inch or so, the washer volume exceeds what the drain can currently handle.
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Author:
hi (TX)
suspect there may be a smaller pipe downline from 2"
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
And there may be an honest politician out there, but I have to start with what experience has repeatedly proven
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Author:
Don411 (IN)
I would cut the pipe going into the wall right at the elbow flange, you should have just enough pipe sticking out to re-glue a new fitting on the end without opening the wall up. If you don't then you'll need to bust up that patch around the pipe and re-patch after you re-attach the new fitting.
Snake the pipe when the trap is off, then re-plumb that as the drain to a laundry sink, and drain the washer into the sink. If it was a clog, there won't be any standing water in the sink when the washer drains. If the downline pipe is undersized, then the sink will act as a buffer to manage the drain rate. You can plumb a vent behind the sink with an AAV.
Not sure which if any codes apply to this, but you don't have many options without major surgery to expose how/where that drain is connected.
Re-Modeling homes for 35 years.
I am NOT a licensed plumber.
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