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Author:
m & m (MD)
The first faucet is a Moen, not American Standard. Calling 800 BUY MOEN should get you the right replacement parts. Sorry, can't help with the second faucet.
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
Ha! You are right! It IS a MOEN. Got confused by an "SA" logo on the brass (NOTE TO SELF: "SA" IS NOT THE SAME AS "AS"! ) and didn't look further. Took off the handle and found Moen, with a patent number. It's a start. THANK YOU! Is there a model number somewhere on this thing that I could find without shutting off the water? This particular shower is fed by a well and I don't think the system has been shut off in 40 years, so I don't want to tackle that problem until I have the right cartridge. I'm not getting much water out of the shower head anymore (but the sinks are clear and running well)
Can anyone help with the Eljer?
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
Fixitangel (NC)
Quote: I'm not getting much water out of the shower head anymore (but the sinks are clear and running well) I would remove the shower head and test the water flow before I would rpl the cartridge. Those old Moen cartridges are notorious for "sticking" in the valve body and often require special tools to remove. A shower head is often alot easier to replace, and since you are on well water, mineral build-up could be clogging it. I'm on a well and my shower head started clogging; I tried soaking it in vinegar with limited results, it's a cheap head so I just replaced it.
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Author:
m & m (MD)
Moen cartridge #1225.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
But the one in the valve is probably the brass #1200 and they can be very difficult to remove without the right toolS, (not always just one toolL).
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
I've had a bad experience with a Moen cartridge before, but then I discovered that my local hardware store (not a big box store) will rent me a Moen cartridge puller for $5 a day. I see them for sale as well. Won't that do the job? It seemed pretty straightforward when I watched a plumber do it in another shower.
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
Good advice, but I've already removed and replaced the head. The control is very resistant to being pulled out /in or turned. So I think the crud is to be found behind it, don't you think?
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
"Author: m & m (MD) said: Moen cartridge #1225."
Thank you!
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Author:
hj (AZ)
You may need to remove the big round plate and see if there is a large "nut" to the right fo the stem. If so, you have a Moentrol and that spool could be stuck, or sticking.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
The outer shell of the brass ones will get stuck in the valve body, and the puller will yank the middle out and leave the shell behind, unless you are lucky. Getting that out is the real problem.
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
Yes, that is what happened to me with a sink cartridge before I knew there was a tool for pulling it out. I learned that lesson the hard way. But are you saying that the cartridge can separate like that even when you use the puller?
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Author:
m & m (MD)
Yes, that is what he is saying. On the end of the brass cartridge, there is a very thin snap ring that holds the outer shell together with the interior. If it is lodged tight enough, the snap ring can shear and the interior comes out leaving the shell in the faucet bore.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Not "even when you use the puller", but ESPECIALLY when you use the puller.
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
After you attach the puller, but before you start applying any pulling force, you need to see if you can get the cartridge rotated at least 180 degrees before attempting to extract it. Once it rotates, that means all the hard water deposits have been broken free.
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Author:
Fixitangel (NC)
On that Eljer valve, I did some searching and found that Eljer and Valley used some identical parts, just the brand names were different. Later on "Eljer" was bought by American Standard. Confusing isn't it? Anyway it appears that it's a cartridge that fits a valve body with 2 sets rubber seals and springs. Take a look at our sponsor site: Plumbing Supply and lookup the Valley V6680 cartridge and the V7059 seals and springs kit. If the faucet drips and won't turn off completely, it's usually just the seals and springs. Use a dab of silicone grease on the seals before installing. I also found that Danco makes a "universal cartridge #80978 (VA-1), not sure what the seals part number is, but I'd definitely replace them too.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
A brass one will usually snap its ears before it rotates.
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
Thank you Fixitangel. I received a nice email from the kind lady at Plumbing Supply giving me the same information. Just one question about that -- I see that Valley also made cartridges for back-to-back shower installations. This Eljer shower backs against a Crane shower in another bathroom. Does that change the recommended cartridge? or what it is worth, the house was (solidly) built in 1949 if that helps you figure out the wall separation.
Also, am I likely to have trouble getting the old cartridge out like I will with the Moen one?
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
HJ, I'd be happy to hear your best advice on how to limit the chance of getting into trouble with the Moen cartridge. Is there something, for example, that I could spray into the fittings to try to loosen up the crud before I even attempt to change the cartridge? I'm not on a time clock. I could do this in a couple of stages.
I will also check for the Moentrol, as you suggested.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
NO, nothing will remove it except "force" using the necessary tools. As I stated, I have 5 different tools to remove the core, and often it takes more than one of them as the sitaution degrades. In fact, I once had one break in two inside the valve body, and that was a real challenge to get the bottom piece out.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
No but it will probably fall apart, which is no problem because you are not going to reinstall that one. No way to tell if you need the "reverse" one, but since the valves seldom came with one you probably just need the regular one. The Crane valve, since it is probably also a Moen would have been easier to pipe backwards, if they even did it that way, so that would also make it unlikely that you need the "special" cartridge.
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
RE: Eljer. I do know that the shower on the other side was piped backwards. For quite a number of years, the hot and cold were reversed. Then a cartridge had to be changed and the plumber turned it 180 degrees to compensate for that. Now "hot" means hot.
RE: Moen Cartridge: So what tools do you use (or are happy to have on hand) besides the manufacturer's puller? Are there other pullers?
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Author:
hj (AZ)
There are several "items" that are repurposed to work on them, but none that you probably have access to, and I have had them so long that I no longer remember the make or models.
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
OK.
I am being offered three different cartridges for the Moen and I don't know which one to get. I am being offered:
#1220 (a) - the Genuine Moen brass cartridge
(b) - the "will fit" version of that (less expensive)
#1225 - the plastic "Magnum Cartridge".
I have no idea of the pros and cons of the three. I don't, for example, know if using the "will fit" version of the brass comes with any risks that are avoided by using the more expensive "genuine" one. And I don't know if the plastic cased one is better in any way, such as being easier to replace later on. In case it makes any difference in the choice, this shower currently goes for years without being used and is fed by well water.
Can anyone offer me advice?
Thanks again!
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Author:
hj (AZ)
They will all work. The 1200 which is probably what you have will last long past the time when it should be replaced, i.e., it will get harder and harder to pull but will not leak. ANd it will be harder to extract when the time comes. THe 1225 plasic one is what is commonly used these days.
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
If the ears snap, I rip the center out and sweat a piece of L copper into the remnants of the casing. Takes about 10 minutes, no muss, no fuss.
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
Thank you, everyone, for your assistance! Your time and patience has been very much appreciated.
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Author:
Psychee (NJ)
Postscript:
I am pleased to report that both showers now have new cartridges installed and so now I can shower with a decent water stream once again after years of frustration.
The old Moen cartridge came out on the first try using the Moen 104421 Combination Cartridge Puller. I was happy I bought it!
Thanks again.
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
Great news, glad to hear it.
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