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Author:
nocents (AK)
Do the style of flush valves with seats that slope (aren't horizontal) have more problems with flappers fully seating? Or is it just coincidence?
Meaning, the flappers on sloped-seat valves randomly don't fully seat, more often than horizontal-seat valves?
Till we moved in this house 20+ yrs, all ours were horizontal & we rarely had new / nearly new decent quality flappers have trickle leaks. NOTE: both toilets are 5 - 7 gal, near same tank height (water depth), 2" flush valves.
One toilet's flush valve is sloped & other has typical horizontal. Flappers tend to leak on the sloped flush valve far more often... For a couple decades now, & * 2 different * sloped flush valves.
Even same brand & part No. flapper sometimes leaks on the sloped valve but not the other. Fluidmaster, Korky - doesn't matter.
I just replaced the old, sloped flush valve - another sloped one - Korky kit # 4010 [www.korky.com]
New flapper leaks. Put on another brand of new flapper - still leaks.
The flappers on (both the new & old sloped valves) are always centered on valve seat.
Nothing (visibly) wrong w/ the new valve's seat - smooth, uniform.
Flapper looks "normal" - examing in my hand.
I've checked everything - if anything's different between the 2 toilets. Nothing I see & I've spent lots of time examining both, over yrs.
Thanks.
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Author:
m & m (MD)
There is one more leak path: the flush valve gasket that seals the flush valve to the tank. It can leak and allow water to leave the tank directly to the bowl with no external evidence.
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Author:
packy (MA)
i don't find that to be true.
doesn't mean it isn't true. i just don't find it so..
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
It is possible as the rubber on the flapper wears at the attachment points and may fall out of position lower and lower as the rubber deteriorates. I have the best luck with the Fluidmaster bullseye super flapper with the hard plastic mounting. I prefer them over any other brand, Korky included.
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Author:
nocents (AK)
Thanks.
One thing - Korky CS said that some older, 5 - 7 gal toilets need a "slightly different" flapper than their standard universal, to get a good seal. Said, "sometimes they need slightly heavier flapper." I asked why newer toilets could get by w/ "lighter flappers" - but still 2". They couldn't explain why.
They're sending a "Classic" 2000BP [www.korky.com]
Korky description: "Larger ball design to stay open longer and ensure a TIGHT SEAL on 5 and 7 gallon toilets." Hmmm. But, it doesn't say * how * it achieves tighter seal on older toilets.
Any ideas why 5 - 7 gal toilets need a specific flapper for tighter seal vs. newer toilets (2" valve)? Most new toilets don't have, say, far deeper water in the tank to increase pressure on the flapper.
KCRoto - the flappers I'm concerned about are brand new or nearly new flappers. No wear & AFAIK, no visible problem w/ the flappers. Probably any of them can be out of whack, from the factory.
Seems like I've seen a "bulls eye" [www.lowes.com].
A similar model Fluidmaster was on my old, sloped flush valve (never leaked) - but the arms won't fit around this new, 2 piece overflow tube (Korky flush valve). But that's one model - I can measure a Bullseye.
The bottom of this Korky 2-piece tube is wider / thicker than many - for support, I guess. Other rubber arm flappers fit it OK.
M&M - that's true. I eliminated a flush valve gasket leak by * gently * pressing on center of flapper. When it's leaking (enough to hear), it stops immediately. Doesn't leak everytime.
Packy - my problem w/ 2 sloped flush valves may just be coincidence.
I'm not sure about downward force on a flapper w/ sloped flush valve, from the flapper weight & water pressure vs. a horizontal valve. I'd have to get out my old physics & vector analysis books.
And the old, "block sitting on inclined plane" problems - "calculate its vertical & horizontal force on the plane," the vertical force from mass of an object is reduced. Whether both reductions combined are enough to affect a flapper??
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
I would replace the Korky flush valve with a fluidmaster unit that used the flappers that I know work great. But that is just personal preference.. but mine don't leak, so.. yeah
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Author:
hj (AZ)
The problem is usually NOT the angled flush valve seat, but rather the flapper itself. I only use the packaged flappers because the "bulk" ones often have "warps" in them. It may not be noticeable, but if it is there it will leak. Pushing down on it forces it to conform to the flat seat and stop leaking. I only use the black Korky for every toilet, other than the ones with proprietary designs. The talk about 'heavier flappers" or any thing else is just a 'snow job' designed to dazzle you with their brilliance.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
The height of the water in the tank determines the pressure on the flapper. Low flush toilets sometimes, but not always, have a lower level which would reduce the pressure on the flapper, but to such a small extent I would not consider it a factor.
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