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Author:
nancy361 (PA)
Hello
New here
I had a question on removing the seat for hot and cold faucet in my tub...I just replaced the stems and sleeves and knobs etc...seems still takes a minute or 2 to stop dripping....i have the new seats, they seem to be the hex shaped brass ones....but i cant get the old ones out...i have the seat tool 6 step seat wrench and looking inside it seems its a hex shape but its so rusty i cant quite tell...probably more rounded now, i put the toll in and tap it in a bit and it wont even budge....this was the hot water side...is there anything i can do to get that out of there??? differnt type tool or wd 40....i think i read if it is in fact round, they dont come out, but hex ones do....this bathroom was done in 1961....i just moved in 4yrs ago....tub just seems to drip constantly no matter how tight you turn the knob...now that all parts are replaced it shuts off, but still takes a minute or 2 to stop dripping completely......Id like to get those old seats out of all 3, hot cold and shower
anyone have any ideas to help???
thanks
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Author:
Wheelchair (IL)
You are learning the difference between a DIY'er and a Professional. Removing valve seats, is an artform, after the seat has been abused. Its not only the proper tools, but the art of using them, just enough. Like a safe-cracker, you have to have that special touch.
Some like to use a tri-angle file to form new ridges. Others use a drill bit, just enough not to damage the threads on the valve body.
Patience + Artform = Seat Removal.
Best Wishes
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Author:
packy (MA)
first of all, there should not be any rust in a brass body valve.
if you can't get the seat out, invest in a decent seat grinding tool. they are not expensive.
if done right, the seat will be as good as new.
if you really have a slow drip then the seat can't be that corroded or chipped. so grinding it should be very easy and give good results.
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Author:
nancy361 (PA)
more like sediment hard to tell if its round or square or hex, i should look at the cold water faucet maybe i can see it better....sucks that i cant seem to get it out with that tool....try tapping some but it seems its stripped inside the tool doesnt get a good grip, i tried tapping it in til it grabs but nothing....i read if it is round it cant be removed, is this true? as i said, the prev owner did the bathroom in 61, not sure if they ever replaced anything inside the faucets let alone a seat
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Author:
greekguy7 (IL)
There are a few different styles of faucet seat wrenches out there... some better than others. A poor one, or one in the hands of the wrong person can take a simple task into a major one.
Sometimes, if its truly rounded out, the correct size eazy-out will get it out
You also might wanna consider getting some help from someone who has done this in the past, before proceeding.
You will definitely need to know the brand of faucet to get the correct seat and bring the old cartridge and seat with you when you go shopping
Edited 2 times.
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Author:
m & m (MD)
Try matching a hex allen wrench to the seat. You may find it will work.
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
Just an observation, but if the dripping stops after a minute, it isn't a problem with the seats, it is the remainder of water dripping from inside the valve body and running out of the spout.
Not saying that the seats aren't rough and tearing up washers, but if water was getting by, the dripping wouldn't stop.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
That is not a very good tool for removing a stuck seat, and it is possible the opening is square so the hex does not grab it properly. The important thing is to use the proper sized wrench so it does NOT slip and "round out" the opening.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
junk:
proper:
the 'universal' angle tool has too much taper to get a good 'grip' resulting in slippage
the 'dedicated' higher grade tools have a sliiiiight taper resulting in a 'tapped in' tight grab of the seat's drive recess
if the seats were ORIGINALLY 'round hole' they were not removable
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
Edited 2 times.
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Author:
nancy361 (PA)
thanks for the feedback.......just suppose the seat is round on all three faucets, what can i do to make a better seal so the water stops dripping?
At this moment it is dripping...yesterday it would drip for a cpl minutes then stop.....last nite and now its dripping all the time.....like i said, this bathroom was redone by prev owner in 61, the wall is tiled and the pipes sit just behind it...hot water faucet wouldnt stop dripping and you could hear it no matter how tight i turned the handle to shut it off.....so i shut off water took the handles and all that off and removed the stem units, went to plumbing supply store and showed them old stem and he gave me a rebuilding kit that was exact match to what we had, handles sleeves etc and all.... the kit box says sterling tub and shower faucet rebuild kit RBK0457...home depot has same thing, only buy it online though.....
so thats what i did, took everything out and only thing i didnt replace was 3 seats, so did some reading and looked at some videos and got that seat wrench and tried to unscrew it, but if it is 53 yrs old, since remodel in 61, then chances are its really in there good....or it is round.....the rebuild kit as i said, has same exact parts and the new seats appear to have a squarish hex shape, so i can only guess the ones in the pipe now are the same....hard to see, with all the sediment and gunk the shape....i put a tiny screwdriver in to sort of get a sense of the shape and it sort of seems its squared.....so trying that wrench and as tight as it was, it wasnt budging....i put it all back together and turned on water, and its dripping, doesnt feel hot though, ..i dont know........
if it is indeed round, and i cant remove all 3, then what can i do to make that seal so water stops coming thru??
also i noticed in the new kit, the one end where the black washer is with the screw, the washer has a little groove, and thats where the seat fits into that groove when all works right
but the old ones i took out didnt appear to have that groove in washer...so who knows
calling a plumber to come and try to remove the 3 seats and put in new ones, which is all they need to do, cause i can do the rest myself....who knows what that cost will be....and if i try to get out the seats it may make things worse....wonder if i can spray some of that CLR in or WD40 if that would help.....cutting that piece of pipe on all 3 would require opening up that part of the wall on other side and again, who knows what that will cost.......if these seats were round originally, there has to be something i can do to make it a tighter fit so stops dripping
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
based upon your last post:
you really really need an actual plumber
if they were 'round' they are NOT replaceable but may need to be 'dressed' in place using specialty tools and experience
'google' seat dressing tool
however: it sounds like you have NOT cleaned out ALL the 'gunk and/or corrosion - when you do you will be able to see the seats CLEARLY using a bright 'penlight' type flashlight
since the above obvious (to us) facts are foreign to you, and because this is simple BASIC maintenance,
if you can't afford to maintain your home you need to consider relocating to less expensive accommodations, ie. rent
tough love is love none-the-less
professional seat grinding tool:
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
The seat openings are EITHER square or hex, NOT a "squarish hex shape". What do the new seats have because that will be the same as the ones in the faucet. Seats seldom "get tighter" even after 69 years.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
Where in the world did you find THAT seat grinding tool? It definitely does NOT work with seats IN the faucet, although it might work once they are removed, but then, why would you dress them when it would be infinitely easier to replace them.
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Author:
nancy361 (PA)
bernabeu (SC)
I have this morning, sprayed it and cleaned out the gunk and sediment and can see the shower and cold faucet are more square with little slots like in each corner.. it matches the new seats that came with the kit i got....
as for maintenance, well i bought this house 4yrs ago...prev owner lived in it 55yrs.....they moved in here in 57 and redid the bathroom in 61....mind you its all well kept and good workmanship still........after many yrs its obvious that something will start to go and so leaky faucets happen......not a big deal for me to learn and do this myself....if the seats were able to be removed, then i wouldnt be here asking any questions....id have removed them and replaced them and it all will be fine.........
all the parts are new now, except the seats....i sprayed them with CLR and cleaned them out and then WD40.....not even going to try to put seat wrench in them cause i dont want them stripped out too....i know a plumber, and will ask him about it...
The PREV OWNER shouldve brought thing up to date and remodeled after all those yrs.......its an older home and things do go...so if replacing faucets to stop a leak is what needs done, well thats what i did, just cant get out the dumb small piece that is needed to replace...
i dont need to move somewhere else cause you think i cant maintain this home......thanks
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Author:
nancy361 (PA)
the whole original set for tub and shower was GERBER.....as i said the new kit is exact as old stuff....the seats look to be square with little slits in corners or points
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
then, using a QUALITY seat tool, unscrew them and replace them
seat extractor tool sold by our sponsor:
Seat Extractor Set #4568
[www.plumbingsupply.com]
or
call a plumber
you are correct
DIY or hire it out
either way - get 'er done - or live with the water and utility bill from the drip
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
hj,
just thought you would like to see a REAL valve seat grinding tool
works juuuust fine on globe valves IN POSITION (over 1" of course)
(posted for the OP to see the PRINCIPLE involved of 'lapping in place')
I just KNEW you would get right back to me
ps. let's begin the debate of lapping vs dressing vs grinding - NOT
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
nancy361 (PA)
at this point i dont think anything will do.....the hole just wont take anything it seems, its too rounded out(stripped)...those tools have the squared ends , i took the 6 step back and got the tapered end one and neither did anything.. i tapped it in with a hammer best i could and it felt like it grabbed but then would just turn, like a stripped screw....this is the hot water faucet, i didnt even want to touch the cold or shower....i even tried a beveled washer, but that didnt do anything either to sort of plug up the hole more....clearly the seat itself is rough cause its ruining the washer already....might have to try the seat dress tool to smoothe it out....also looked at the extractor drivers, bot sure it would work though.....hate the thought of having to pay hundreds to a plumber for them to get the seats out or just put a new faucet thing in the wall.....so dumb....and frustrating
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
no
some of the tools have square
some have hex
and ONE has a triangle for 'grabbing' stripped out seats
you take the triangle ended tool and tap it into the seat SOLIDLY then turn it out with the ratchet driver which is part of the set
works EVERY TIME but requires mechanical know-how and experience
a plumber could 'probably' have changed the seats and rebuilt the valve for one service call
by the time you finish 'hacking' the job you may need new valve assemblies
STOP NOW and call a plumber while the valves may still be rebuildable
BEST OF LUCK
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
VIC,
this link is a 'how to' for the OP
[www.homedepot.com]
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hj (AZ)
I would NEVER advise a DIYer to do any of them to a faucet seat, because all they would do would be to make the situation worse.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
quote; hate the thought of having to pay hundreds to a plumber for them to get the seats out or just put a new faucet thing in the wall....
Well, I also hate the thought of paying a doctor hundreds of dollars just to give me a shot to get well.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
IT will just get worse and worse until you finally break down and have a plumber fix it.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
DOH
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
nancy361 (PA)
the only seat i actually tried to remove was just the hot water faucet...i didnt touch the other 2...and yes i did talk to a friend who is a master plumber, he told me he wouldve used the seat wrenches himself to get them out, he also said some seats dont come out....i said to him about the the tool set with ratchet and trying on my own to remove the old seat, he wondered why id go thru all that, why not just replace the whole valve....he quoted a new valve at 85 bucs ....i said if i can try to do it on my own why not...nobody is busting up pipes or doing anything outrageous to this part to make it worse or break something else....and its not about NOT wanting to spend hundreds, but geez if somebody can do something themselves and save money why not? its obvious the seats are worn and since hot water , which is normal to corrode more, was one that is worse then other 2, its due to being so corroded and rough and wearing down the washer
ill have him come see the faucet and see if he cant remove the seat 1st, if he feels he cant, then have to replace valve....oh well.....
thank you all
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
EIGHTY FIVE DOLLARS? What is it made of? Plastic? Is that an installed price? Calling yourself a "master plumber" does not necessarily mean you are one, and not all plumbers know how to fix faucets.
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
nancy361 (PA)
no its a regular shower valve, brass or whatever.....plumbing supply i guess he gets it charges that, who knows.....i take it you pay more for it?? no thats not installed, he said he had to come by an see before he can give me a price total.....and yea anyone doing any job can sat they are great, but they arent..... he took over his dads business and he is that good....he is just expensive though....
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
If he is simply replacing a 2-3 handle shower valve with an identical configuration, then it probably is about that much, but that is cheaper than most decent quality valves at our costs. If you are going to replace the valve though, I would put in a single handle pressure balanced or thermostatic valve and a remodel cover plate. It costs a bit more, but is a better option imho.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
"expensive" is a relative term. Which is more "expensive" someone who charges $75/hr and takes 5 hours or one who charges $100 and takes 2?
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Author:
nancy361 (PA)
KC, eventually we will do a whole bathroom remodel gut job, then we will change up all that fixture stuff...we moved here almost 4yrs ago and other things needed done...so we will just go with replacing whats there....plus the wall is all tiled, make those changes down the rd...He knows his stuff, but his fees arent cheap...he does the job,no complaints and its all good, and i have no problem paying 200 ...
hopefully he can take a look soon, cause the water is a steady drip....and its hot water too...
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
Quote
Insert the seat removal tool into the seat, be sure to use the correct end of the tool, one side is square and the other has 6 sides. Most seats are made of brass a soft metal and will strip very easy. Using a universal type seat removal tool is likely to strip the seat because they are tapered and do not make a perfect fit.
The right tool for the job applies here.
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
hi (TX)
Wow
pretty heavy duty seat grinder. It may be too big for a bath valve as the smallest stones appear to be about 2 inches in diameter. Maybe for commercial showers not residential. Nice set however.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
posted as a ha-ha
industrial valve seat grinder for 'in position' use when speed is of the essence
however, the principle is the same
HAPPY NEW YEAR
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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