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Thousands of gallons of water cascaded down stairwells and poured through light fixtures of the Stovall on Bayshore Boulevard on Nov. 4 when a worker, about to fall off scaffolding, broke a sprinkler pipe that he had grabbed to steady himself.

Piping was code compliant ~ however ~ 'good practice' dictates:

Piping supports / hangers shall bear the weight of the pipe PLUS 250 lbs.



millions of $$ in damage to be, hopefully, paid by insurance

see: [web.tampabay.com]

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"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



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I think you will find that he probably grabbed a sprinkler branch line to an individual head and those are SELDOM supported by anything other than the piping, unless it had to be repositioned a distance from the main.

each head must be supported within 12"

THAT is code

I am referring to the STRENGTH of said hanger and piping

the CPVC pipe which today IS code compliant will not ITSELF meet good practice


in the old days when we did sprinklers (yes, I 'scabbed' as a sprinkler fitter) we used to test the job by doing pull-ups on the piping ~ if it 'wobbled' it failed

................siiiiigh



==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



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Many are NOT offset more than 12", but if someone were falling and grabbed a head on a 12" nipple, it WOULD snap off.

so ..... a 12" length of 1" steel pipe would not support your weight ?

or enable you to 'catch your balance' so you did not fall ?


GO ON A DIET AND GET UNDER 250

have a good laugh



ps.

Quote

... he had grabbed to steady himself.

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



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Not if I were falling off a scaffold and it would depend on how much I weighed.

posts crossed

we all get my drift re: MINIMUM code versus good/accepted industry practice

the fault may be with the design engineer's SPECIFICATIONS or the contractor saying 'but it meets code'

IMO: the contractor should follow specs providing that they (the specs) are code compliant

not

reduce the specs to the minimum code level

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

quote..
"hangers shall bear the weight of the pipe PLUS 250 lbs."
so, who in the world weighs every piece of pipe in order to install hangers?
you use some sort of beam hangers, lengths of 3/8 thread rod and 1A band hangers spaced the proper distance apart. (in the real world that is)..

bernabeu, i appreciate your union training but if i ran my business to your standards, i'd be in the bread line..

The entire setup may have been 'good practice' when it was installed, but age and the environment affect metal as well as the waistline of many people.

Is it required for a tub spout (plastic one made by best practicing Price Pfister) to withstand the weight of a grown man after eating a full Thanksgiving meal, using it as a step up to reach the ceiling to remove the exhaust fan cover?

I feel like there is a story in there somewhere..

Sigh. In the good old days thay made car bumpers of heavy gauge steel; some had chromed dagmars like the ones on HJ's 1950's Mercury:


Now THATS a real bumper Wonder why they don't make them that way anymore? Playing the devil's advocate, I notice there was no mention in the article if the worker on the scaffold was unsteady from drinking or drugs, or if the scaffold was secure and steady with proper safety equipment in place, etc. causing him to loose his balance in the first place.

Final though: if "proper" steel pipe was used in the 1950's (which I assume would be galvanized) isn't there a chance that over many years, the inside of the pipe would develop rust which could either clog the sprinklers or restrict the water flow to them in the case of fire?

I have NEVER owned a Mercury. My first car was a NEW 1954 Lincoln convertible. Black with a white top and yellow leather upholstery.

1l Is the drop ear elbow secured
2. Is it screwed on to a brass nipple
3. Is the hole in the wall a snug fit for the nipple
IF so, then there is little strain on the nipple, but the spout could snap at the thread. What's wrong with your wife doing it? She probably weighs less, and if it breaks she could probably use the "recovery time", while you wait on her.



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Quote

Final though: if "proper" steel pipe was used in the 1950's (which I assume would be galvanized) isn't there a chance that over many years, the inside of the pipe would develop rust which could either clog the sprinklers or restrict the water flow to them in the case of fire?

Sprinkler pipe is NOT galvanized. It is 'standard' mild black steel (forgot the ASTM #s).

Since the internal water is 'stagnant' (in the sense of no flow except for periodic testing) there is little 'new' oxygen introduced to cause significant rusting.

Proper sizing (maximum of 2 heads on a 1" pipe which is also the minimum pipe size) eliminates the 'clogging' issue.

To my personal knowledge there has NEVER been a failure to perform from a PROPERLY INSTALLED, PROPERLY MAINTAINED, and PROPERLY OPERATED fire protection sprinkler system.

ps. I formerly held a W-12 Certificate of Fitness issued by the NYC Fire Department. (there were only about 100 at any given time)

Said 'cert' entitled me to maintain and operate ANY fire suppression system in NYC.

Installation was done by LICENSED and BONDED contractors.

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

packy,

Quote

...you use some sort of beam hangers, lengths of 3/8 thread rod and 1A band hangers spaced the proper distance apart.

yep

of course

as per specs (which exceed code)

said hangers are designed for and WILL hold over 250 # ANYWHERE on the piping when properly spaced

or

any NON lead expansion shield into the concrete slab/ceiling/deck

any 'carriage screw' into structural framing

we learned the theory to 'get a grasp' of the reasons behind proper procedure, which we then followed on 'autopilot'

of course we did not 'measure' the capacity in the field

we simply installed the hangers where they were necessary

the 'olden days' piping could be used as ladders when climbing around in hung ceilings and 'interstitial' spaces

ps. we called them beam clamps





==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



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quote;the inside of the pipe would develop rust which could either clog the sprinklers or restrict the water flow to them in the case of fire?
Reply To This Message

Sprinkler head are NOT connected to the bottom of the main where that could happen. They go up off the top and then drop down to the head. However this does introduce more "failure" points that could fail under stress, although in normal circumstances they do not encounter that level of stress, unless impacted by some moving object. As far as "stagnant water" in a sprinkler system, it IS some of the nastiest water you will ever encounter.



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good practice re: hangers ~ surpassing code ~ do pull-ups!



code minimum 'glued' CPVC:




I realize the 'good old days' are long gone

however

the 'new stuff' leaves NO MARGIN for error and actually, in many cases, requires MORE experience to install PROPERLY as per actual manufacturer's specs

the above flood would be a case in point

imagine a fire suppression system installed in such a manner that it did not withstand a worker's 'grab for balance' even if it was over 100 lbs force to stop his fall

? what about the stress of expansion and contraction during an actual fire event requiring more than one sprinkler (proper term for a head) to activate ?


enough ..... the horse is long dead

==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638

I'll bet if you follow the story long enough, someone will try to pin the blame on the worker or his firm for falling off the scaffold.

Was the scaffold set up per the manufacturer's specs and in compliance with OSHA regs?
Did the employer provide fall arresting gear for the worker?

I'm sure the list can go on and on

Out here, when you say 'sprinkler' you have to differentiate between a fire sprinkler or a lawn/irrigation sprinkler, because many of our homes have both.

They will 'pin the blame' on whoever has the best insurance coverage. Like police departments, they don't want the truth as much as they want to clear the case.



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In a prison, they will have very strong bars overhead and across doorways able to withstand impact and anyone wanting to do chin-ups. No plastic pipes

They also do not have toilets or sinks with faucets they can take apart and flood the area.

My apologies, sir. My point was; it has a REAL bumper. Was the chrome hood scoop standard?

That looks just like the front of my convertible and yes it was standard. I once had a guy cut me off that those "Dagmars" just missed him.

fixitangel would you like some spiked wheels to go with that bumper?





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NO power steering!



==============================================

"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638



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My Lincoln had power steering and one of the first power brake systems. When the dealer took us out for a ride in it, he hit the brakes and almost threw all over the windshield.