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Author:
sum (FL)
I am going to be installing a pedestal sink.
I have two sinks I can use. The Kohler Wellworth or the Toto Pacifica.
Now, the problem is, the existing drain stubout is 12" horizontally from the wall. Which means a 24" wide sink would fit.
The Kohler Wellworth is 22-1/4" wide, so I can center the sink at the drain with a gap of 1-3/4" to the side, no problem.
The Toto Pacifica is 25-5/8" wide, half width is 12-13/16". If I install it all the way against the side wall, the drain and centerline of the sink would be off by 13/16". I put the pedestal base against it, and it is wide enough to cover the drain and hot/cold supply lines, I don't think it will show that it's off-centered from the drain and supplies, but I can't help but think it may look odd.
Thoughts? Should I go with the Wellworth just to have a bit of space to one side?
The instructions call for 1/4" hanger bolts to be used on the wall with wood backer boards, and lag bolts to secure the pedestal base to the floor.
In my case the bathroom is existing with porcelain tiles, and behind the tiles is a bit of a gap (I am guess 1/4" or so) then concrete blocks.
Instead of using hanger bolts and lag bolts, would it be sufficient to just use 1/4" Tapcon, say 2-1/4" long?
Edited 1 times.
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Author:
steve (CA)
Why would there be ¼" between tile and block wall? I would use lag shields into block wall.
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Author:
sum (FL)
actually it may be more than 1/4", perhaps 3/8".
I think there are strips of wood furrings mounted vertically on the block wall, then a piece of thin durock over the strips, then tiles over the durock...that's as far as I can tell when I changed out the hot and cold angle valves.
Whatever I use need to penetrate all these layers all the way to the concrete blocks.
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
With the kohler sink the installation specifies that you need 1 inch of thread from the finished wall surface to mount the sink. If you have a 3/8 space for the furring strips, 4/8 inch durarock, 2/8 inch mortar, 3/8 inch tile.. then you need 2 1/2 inches before you even hit the block wall behind. The spec sheet indicates that the holes are half inch in diameter on the sink, so I would personally look to get an anchor that is almost 4 inches and leave more than the required inch of space of thread outside the finished wall surface. Texture on the tile or any slightly crooked tile could hold the sink out just a bit further than expected, so I personally would shoot for 1 3/8 or so protruding from the wall, and us a heavy fender washer and nut instead of cap nuts. Nobody will see them and if it is a bit long, it won't matter; it is much, much better than being short. (no jokes about having a short screw..) Something like this would be ideal [www.toolbarn.com]
Mounting the pedestal to the floor… I personally don't. I put a bead of silicone when putting the base down for a little bit of adhesion, then around it when I am done to stop dirt/mop water from accumulating. I put the base under it after everything is ready to tighten down and the nuts are on the mounting screws, but not tightened so the sink can be lifted slightly. Once the sink is tightened, it can't lift and the pedestal is held in place, the silicone prevents a kick from twisting or moving the base out of position.
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Author:
sum (FL)
KCRoto I think wedge anchors are for solid concrete not blocks though.
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Author:
packy (MA)
first, go with the kohler. they are easier to mount to the wall.
second, do not be too concerned with the strength of the anchors. the weight of the sink is held by the pedestal. the anchors just keep it from pulling away from the wall. make them firm but super firm is not needed.
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Author:
sum (FL)
Reason I hesitate to use larger diameter fasteners like 3/8" or 1/2" on concrete blocks. The thickness if the block cell is 3/8" or so unless you happen to drill into a web on the ends. If the cell is 3/8" and the hole is 1/2", there is a higher chance the larger diameter expansion type anchors may break more concrete around the hole as they expands.
Since this is a sink and wall is tiled, if I mess up on a hole, there is no cure, I can't try an inch over and an inch lower for a new hole.
Furthermore the porcrlain tiles are VERY hard. It was hard to cut even with a diamond blade on a grinder. I know regular masonry bit will not drill it, so I need to buy whatever diamond core bit for it just to get it through the tiles.
That is why I am thinking hex head Tapcon screws instead, may be 5/16" size...
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
Keep a spray bottle with water in it next to you as you drill. Once you get started, keep your bit wet and don't go too fast and it will cut just fine. The anchors shown are designed for block, and if you use a tapcon you will have to do all the work in the underside of the sink. It isn't easy to put in a tapcon like that since you can't put much pressure in line with the fastener and your ability to rotate it is limited- a ratchet helps if you have the space to use it. I know pedestal sinks don't come with carrier mountings, but I still mount mine as if there wasn't a base at all. I have heard arguments that the wall mountings hold the weight, and that the pedestal supports the weight. While the base may be intended to carry the weight, if something happens and the base needs to be pulled for some reason, I want the wall mountings to do the job, hence the fender washers (to spread out the weight across the china).
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Author:
sum (FL)
KCRoto,
I looked at the installation instructions again here:
[www.us.kohler.com]
on page 8 it calls for drilling 1/4" holes. I think the 1/2" you saw are the diameter of the holes on the actual basin.
For drilling, I had previously tried to drill a 1/2" hole on that porcelain tile with a carbide grit hole saw, no luck with 30 minutes of drilling, with water spray bottle, did not even make a dent more than 1 nano mm. Masonry bits are no good either. Very dense tile but very brittle. I end up taking it to a tile shop and instead of two holes for hot and cold, they had to cut the 21"x21" tile in half, and make two 1/2" "U" notches instead.
I end up buying a 1/4" diamond core bit in anticipation of needing it for the sink mounting, as well as possibly towel bar, toilet paper holder etc...
On the wedge anchor, I do believe it is for solid concrete only. Check out this link:
[www.confast.com]
I quote "A wedge anchor for concrete is a special type of concrete fastener designed for use in concrete. Concrete wedge anchors cannot be used in brick, block or other masonry base materials that are not made from solid concrete."
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Author:
sum (FL)
One question I forgot to ask.
Should there be any adhesive caulk between the contact point of the pedestal and basin?
Should there be any adhesive caulk between the wall surface and the flat back face of the basin?
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Author:
KCRoto (MO)
I don't use adhesive caulking for the reason that something may have to come apart later. I use silicone, but I personally don't use any behind the basin or between the basin and pedestal. That being said, it is up to you. I never used more than a damp rag to clean the wall behind my sinks as they were never dirty enough to need more than that. If it were in a commercial or industrial setting I probably would caulk behind the basin after it was attached, but I wouldn't sandwich the caulking. I have had to remove urinals that someone used adhesive caulking on and I cursed them long and loudly. If you have seen the walls surrounding a urinal in a college bar you would understand why.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
sum,
if you drill into a block's hollow then use a toggle bolt
doh
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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Author:
sum (FL)
bernabeu, there is no way I would use a toggle bolt on concrete blocks.
First, I am not going to do something different for each of the two holes, not going to use a toggle bolt on one side if I am in the middle of a cell, and use a regular bolt on the other side if I happen to hit the web or edge.
Second, a toggle bolt requires a much larger hole size to pass the toggle through. The porcelain tile being so dense and hard I just spent $20 on a 1/4" diamond core drill just to put a hole on it I don't want to spent more to make a bigger hole for the toggle bolt. Regular masonry bit and carbide coated bits do nothing to this tile.
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Author:
hj (AZ)
quote; there is no way I would use a toggle bolt on concrete blocks.
And WHY not? it is done hundreds if not thousands of times every day.
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Author:
bernabeu (SC)
option:
drill 1/4 hole
insert plastic anchor
use #10 x 2" s/s screw with s/s fender washer on both holes
if any 'wobble' ensues go from there
==============================================
"Measure Twice & Cut Once" - Retired U.A. Local 1 & 638
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