On another board that deals with hundreds of topics, including the generic home repair, there is currently a plumbing topic (I keep telling folks there to post here for the experts' suggestions!) in which someone has suggested the following product as a suitable replacement for the standard wax ring. Based on the comments there, a number of people have a favorable opinion of them. My experience in reading this board over the years is that you all are likely to disagree but before I chime in over there, I thought I would take my own advice and check with the experts.

[www.homedepot.com]

It is foam rubber, doesn't appear to be recognized by Upc or Ipc, or any plumbing association. On the manufacturer's website, they say specifically to use silicone caulking when using this on a 2nd floor to prevent water leakage; they don't trust it. It states that it allows for movement and rocking common to uneven tile floors. If the toilet is installed correctly, it shouldn't move anyhow. If a flange is too low, you can add a spacer to the old flange and fasten it down securely; you don't need multiple wax rings or extra tall gimmicks. I seriously doubt that you will find competent plumbers using this, but I could be wrong. I can guarantee you won't find it in my house. They make wax rings that have a ring of this same material inside them already, but the wax encapsulating it forms an air and watertight seal, so besides the waste going down the pipe, sewer gas can't come up either. Zurn had a gasket made of the same material that you had to glue to wall mounted toilets for years now, and I personally wasn't keen on that one either. I will stick to traditional wax rings.



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KC, you took the words right out of my mouth.
also note the plated steel bolts supplied with that product.
i would venture a guess that there are more problems that occur from not using brass bolts than about any other plumbing corner cutting- profit maximizing gimick .
in other words CRAP...

Probably no better than the neoprene rings shaped just like that which I used years ago before they got hard to find, but still see, and use, occassionaly.

Thanks all. That is what I suspected. I think I will just post a link to this thread on that other board.



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Not a plumber.

I am open to new ideas and was interested in the No Wax Sani Seal. I bought two of them on the Internet several years ago before they were locally available. I had them on hand for years before I had the chance to use one at a relative's house. Attempting to actually use the Sani Seal I found/learned the following:

1. Instructions on the box "Install the Sani Seal Gasket on a flange that is no more than 3/8" above the floor or 3/8" below the floor for proper sealing." ---- Of course the proper toilet flange installation IS 3/8" above the floor.

2 .The Sani Seal is 1-1/2" thick. When attempting to use it on a correctly mounted flange (3/8" above floor) it does not compress quite enough. Even when additional weight (sitting) was applied, the toilet was still raised high enough that it would rock on a level floor and I was reluctant to tighten the flange bolts to force the toilet to the floor. --- For other opinions check out Amazon Customer Reviews. --- (The products website video does give examples appearing to make the seal work very well.)

3. The seal has a tougher outside flexible material with polyurethane foam inside. If the outer seal is purposely cut - to reduce size etc - the Mfr recommends sealing with 100% silicone. As poster Packy previously mentioned the bolts supplied are plated steel not brass - Recycle them.

4. The seal may work with a toilet flange that was incorrectly installed below top floor surface. -- On a case by case basis. For a correctly installed flange the seal should probably be made available in a less thick size.--- I went back to the standard size wax ring.

5. IMO no matter what type of seal is used, the most important thing to be done before mounting the toilet on the flange is: Make sure that all around the flange and floor is properly sealed in such a way that if/when whatever flange seal used leaks -- ALL water will drain out onto the open bathroom floor. You do not want a slow leak go undetected, leaking below the toilet and destroying the underlying (wood) floor. If there is any possible leak path around the flange and floor, seal with 100% silicone (not caulk with silicone).

6. Sani Seal may work in certain installations, especially for a DIYS. They are always on site to detect if any problems develop and correct them. They are a little too thick but may be a step in the right direction for a better seal. I don't think that many professional plumbers will be using them as they will not want to take chances on a call back. Wax seals work for them - they know very well how to install them.

7. Another seal that "looks" like a good one is the Fernco FTS-3 Wax Free Toilet Seal. The top part is very sticky and seals itself to the bottom of the toilet. Any old wax on the toilet bottom must be completely removed. Over time this seal may break - especially if the toilet ever has any movement (which of course it is not supposed to have). Years ago it looked like just the thing to use on my toilet flange which was incorrectly installed below top of the floor level by the building contractor. The top seal eventually leaked --- I then did the right thing -- removed the original pipe and flange -- reinstalled a new PVC flange with stainless steel ring at the proper height. -- problem solved.

I think one day if they figure out the technology to easily and quickly open and close space time conduits to worm holes and black holes, we shall have no need for toilet drains and wax rings, every toilet comes with a device to open a black hole when you flush and your waste goes to a billion years in the future at a spot a gazillion light years away.

Which of course cause the Earth to shrivel up and all the inhabitants die. Removing the water would reduce the overall supply, and temperature wouldn't regulate in the environment properly. when enough waste is removed, the loss of mass from the planet would cause its gravitational pull to weaken, and let us drift away from the sun, Freezing anyone who did survive the loss of the planet's water. At that point, the last remaining person on the planet (a plumber) would get the final 'told ya so' in about wax rings, and how we should have kept them and the world would still be safe. It is easy to see how not using a wax ring could simply destroy all life on the planet; but the question remains… Teflon tape or pipe dope.

I saw Richard Trethewey put one in a home on "This Old House" a few months ago. If you want to go waxless look at the Fernco one. It makes more sense to me.

[www.fernco.com]



The problem with wax seals are that they are the weakest link in the sewer system. Any motion destroys the seal. They were invented by Omaha plumber William Harvey now "Oatey" in 1944.

[www.oatey.com]

I have used the saniseal in cases where the flange was recessed into or flush with the floor. The real fix in those cases is to raise the flange so that it is sitting directly on top of the finished floor. The saniseal did seal up for me in the cases where the homeowner was to cheap to fix the flange properly. I keep one on my truck for those cases. In general, I use wax rings though.



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